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Thread: Cheap India guns

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    how do we know that the catastrophic failure in the photo was not staged to give INDIA GUNS a bad rep. where did it occur, pictures of people hurt, names of the injured, and hospital and police reports? it is not to far fetched. what will it be next TRADITIONS GUNS made in SPAIN?

  2. #42
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    it appears people buy these guns because of price, and some actually think they're also getting some measure of quality, and therefore also value. there is no way i'd trust a flintlock muzzleloader of dubious build components, particularly when aiming and firing one puts my life up close and personal between success and life threatening failure. buying third world built firearms is a form of gambling.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    how do we know that the catastrophic failure in the photo was not staged to give INDIA GUNS a bad rep. where did it occur, pictures of people hurt, names of the injured, and hospital and police reports? it is not to far fetched. what will it be next TRADITIONS GUNS made in SPAIN?
    yes -- with the garbage thats going on in your country at the moment this would not be a surprise - whoever put this up in the first place should have supplied all the info you point to --
    I shot CVA's all my competive life and put up with constant harrassment from guys with enough spare cash to buy higher class guns - the more I beat them on the line the worse it got till in the end I just shoot CVA's out of shreer cussedness. (still doin ok on the line too)

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    yes -- with the garbage thats going on in your country at the moment this would not be a surprise - whoever put this up in the first place should have supplied all the info you point to --
    I shot CVA's all my competive life and put up with constant harrassment from guys with enough spare cash to buy higher class guns - the more I beat them on the line the worse it got till in the end I just shoot CVA's out of shreer cussedness. (still doin ok on the line too)

    joe, your CVA is SO much more trust worthy than any wall hangar india gun. even those jukar guns are less of a gamble than india guns.

  5. #45
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    they pretty much build these guns in side alleys. Watched one youtube video of the guys roughing out the stock, trigger guard and lock pieces. No way! I'd like a questionable civil war barrel found just yesterday in the dirt over one of these things.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    joe, your CVA is SO much more trust worthy than any wall hangar india gun. even those jukar guns are less of a gamble than india guns.
    yeah I know ! still copped heaps of flack tho

    I reckon that "non firing state" disclaimer I posted from the seller site tells a lot

  7. #47
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    wheres the proof??

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    wheres the proof??
    proof of ..........?

  9. #49
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    proof, that it all is not cocked up. people places, accident reports, police reports, hospital reports, where and when did it happen?? ain't you curious about some of the questions that aren't mentioned or answered?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    proof, that it all is not cocked up. people places, accident reports, police reports, hospital reports, where and when did it happen?? ain't you curious about some of the questions that aren't mentioned or answered?

    Definitely - I checked a couple out last night - one in Texas 2013 - picture shows the muzzle plugged solid and barrel blown out about 8 inches down - seen more than one 12 gauge just like that after the guy took a fall in the swamp.
    another they tested in /england (H P White) expert said had to be a barrel obstruction, steel good for 8o,ooopsi....lots of questions here .

  11. #51
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    indian joe, thanks for the come back. i fully agree with you! no one seams to wonder what happened beyond a blown up gun, INDIAN or other wise, pistol or musket. why don,t people look at operator failure. i guess it is easier to blame the weapon.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    indian joe, thanks for the come back. i fully agree with you! no one seams to wonder what happened beyond a blown up gun, INDIAN or other wise, pistol or musket. why don,t people look at operator failure. i guess it is easier to blame the weapon.
    yeah ------that said I would be pretty dang wary about something that came shipped with no touch hole and a disclaimer that says its a wall hanger

    when I was a small kid "made in japan" was a derogatory term that equated to junk quality - then it was Taiwan , then China, then India, then bangladesh, some place in africa is probably next (seeing that the chinese are buying up resources and starting to move stuff to africa)

    Metal quality seems to be the problem along with lack of control of the process .

  13. #53
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    The Japanese cleaned up their act by imposing government controll on exports....nothing could be exported without an approval stamp...........cut out the junk overnight...........Taiwan ,having Japanese investment in a lot of the export industries,did the same.....China is doing the same...........India ,however is a land of religion, caste ,corruption ,bribery,and rule bending.And fiercely independent people,who refuse to play by the rules.............if you go there ,you will find out truck drivers decide which side of the road they prefer,and drive on it.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    indian joe, thanks for the come back. i fully agree with you! no one seams to wonder what happened beyond a blown up gun, INDIAN or other wise, pistol or musket. why don,t people look at operator failure. i guess it is easier to blame the weapon.
    in this case, where firearms made in third-world-at-best india are concerned, absolutely. it's the firearm en toto - components and build process. in a country where they turned back time? no thank you. where head and hands are but a few inches away from a violent explosion, i'd rather take my chances with flintlocks made elsewhere, in more controlled environments, with better component and build quality. as always, YMMV.

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    Last edited by rfd; 10-07-2018 at 07:24 PM.

  15. #55
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    if a weapon comes with an affidavit saying that it is a wall hanger- then it is just that!

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    if a weapon comes with an affidavit saying that it is a wall hanger- then it is just that!
    that was their sneaky attempt to obfuscate the cross border gun regulations. they have always touted them as "worthy" once a touch hole was drilled. since none have been proofed, how would anyone know their validity? surviving today's CIP proofing a few times and i might think differently. at least the spanish and italian guns are proofed, and you'll see the proof mark stampings. that's a huge step forward in safety over a middle east gun. in the short run, if you mandate safety of yer life and limb above all, get a gun with a proofed barrel at the least.

    via davide pedersoli ...

    "Each and every blackpowder firearm must pass a pressure proof test in the official CIP proof house of Gardone to receive the modern blackpowder proof marks. The official modern proof loads for .58 caliber rifles are quite close in weight to the 19th century proof loads being 15 g (231.5 grain) of blackpowder and 39 g (601 grain) in bullet weight. But the powder used today is much hotter than the 19th century U.S. Government musket powder (the modern proofing powder is the Swiss No. 2. 3Fg powder which is finer and stronger) and the barrels are not proofed in proofing machines but in the fully assembled (but white finish stage) rifles. After firing the barrel, the breech and the stock are inspected for any kind of cracks and damages. Only the spotless rifles will receive the final proof marks and only these rifles qualify for shipping to the customers all over the World."

    https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/riv...and-today.html

  17. #57
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    This is the same thing that John Baird and the AMM tried to get across many years ago...tanstaafl. You buy junk you get what you pay for.

    If the maker won't even drill a touchhole it wasn't meant to shoot period! Take one of these beauties apart some time and look at the sloppy breeching and poor fitting and crooked barrels. And folks get real mad when I refuse to work on dreck like this!

  18. #58
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    It was one of these I first inspected, and sent back to them the same day as unsafe to shoot.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  19. #59
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    The old saying you get what you paid for applies

  20. #60
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    I just received my ENGLISH 1500's INDIAN made FISH TAIL MATCHLOCK 75 CAL. MUSKET from MIDDLESEX T. Co. waited 7 months for it. am very pleased with it . am going to shoot it and am not worried about it. I wanted one and there is no other pieces to be had, except for ones made in GERMANY, or ENGLAND I am told with a year wait,+ and thousands of $.or original ones. yes I made the decision and am more than happy with it. so have at it with me. but don't waist the ink be cause it doesn't matter, I am a happy camper! just thought i would share my new XMAS present with you guys.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check