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Thread: Cheap India guns

  1. #61
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    waksupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    I just received my ENGLISH 1500's INDIAN made FISH TAIL MATCHLOCK 75 CAL. MUSKET from MIDDLESEX T. Co. waited 7 months for it. am very pleased with it . am going to shoot it and am not worried about it. I wanted one and there is no other pieces to be had, except for ones made in GERMANY, or ENGLAND I am told with a year wait,+ and thousands of $.or original ones. yes I made the decision and am more than happy with it. so have at it with me. but don't waist the ink be cause it doesn't matter, I am a happy camper! just thought i would share my new XMAS present with you guys.
    I would recommend putting a ramrod down the bore, and comparing on the outside to see how much breech plug you have. The breech plug should have as much length as the bore diameter.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot View Post
    I just received my ENGLISH 1500's INDIAN made FISH TAIL MATCHLOCK 75 CAL. MUSKET from MIDDLESEX T. Co. waited 7 months for it. am very pleased with it . am going to shoot it and am not worried about it. I wanted one and there is no other pieces to be had, except for ones made in GERMANY, or ENGLAND I am told with a year wait,+ and thousands of $.or original ones. yes I made the decision and am more than happy with it. so have at it with me. but don't waist the ink be cause it doesn't matter, I am a happy camper! just thought i would share my new XMAS present with you guys.
    best of luck, be safe.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
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    waksupi and rfd, that is the first thing i did after you suggested it, never heard of that lit'l trick, i like it and will pass it on to my friends.and it passed muster it is .749, DIA. and rfd, thank you for the kind words. i have made it for 74+ yrs. and want many more. as i said this site has the best bunch of guys that any could have. PS, as of this post i have shot it with a .735 DIA. RB. and 10 thousandths pillow tick patch,and 75 GRS. of 2FG SCHUTZEN BP. it went off with out a hitch.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    There is a H.P.White Lab. report about the firearm in the original post.It's worth searching for and reading.The musket had apparently never been cleaned and had bore restrictions because of that.

  5. #65
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    An engineer will say anything over 5 full threads is a waste.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer in NH View Post
    An engineer will say anything over 5 full threads is a waste.
    He would probably qualify that with some words about the threads being cleanly cut and within specifications

  7. #67
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    well i shot it today. i loaded it with 75 GRS. of SCHUTZEN 2FG. and a 10 thousands pillow tick patch and shot a 5 shot clover leaf at 25 yards. no 4 leaf clover. this is the 2sd. time i have shot it and am very pleased with it. it was the best early XMAS present on could get. now to the task of cleaning it!.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    He would probably qualify that with some words about the threads being cleanly cut and within specifications
    An engineer expects them to be correct and not screwed up.

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    i when i spoke with jim chambers to order out his white lightnin touch hole liners, and explained the mess that jackie brown made of my smoothbores liner hole, he said three solid threads is all that's needed ... at least for a touch liner.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    i when i spoke with jim chambers to order out his white lightnin touch hole liners, and explained the mess that jackie brown made of my smoothbores liner hole, he said three solid threads is all that's needed ... at least for a touch liner.
    Theres a piece of a cut off bolt sitting on my desk by the computer - (proly a message to clean the junk out of my pockets before putting stuff in the wash) end off a 3/8th whitworth by the looks of it (coarse metric threads are little different) - count five threads - its the full depth of a nut, and a whisker longer than the diameter - pull the nut up tight enough and (most times) the bolt will break clean rather than pull or strip the threads.

    Dont like agreeing with experts but I think I back the engineer!

  11. #71
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    So explain to my whey reinactores shell out all kinds of money for equipment and uniforms. but the thing that can dismember you they buy a cheap peace of Junk?
    14th VA. CAV.
    N_SSA

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59sharps View Post
    So explain to my whey reinactores shell out all kinds of money for equipment and uniforms. but the thing that can dismember you they buy a cheap peace of Junk?
    Good question !!!!
    Really good question !!!!!!

  13. #73
    Boolit Mold Chance's Avatar
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    Indian made long guns are sold in the UK as both inert wall hangers and as firearms. All firearms bear proof marks. It is illegal to sell a firearm here that is not proof marked.

    Chance
    Last edited by Chance; 10-18-2018 at 07:49 PM.

  14. #74
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    [QUOTE=rfd;4473616]

    "Each and every blackpowder firearm must pass a pressure proof test in the official CIP proof house of Gardone to receive the modern blackpowder proof marks. QUOTE]


    There is only one proof house in Italy and that is in Gardone. It carries out other work such as testing stab vests. Consider that in that area of Italy you have Uberti, Pietta, Chiappa, Pedersoli, Beretta and a myriad of small gunmakers, all needing firearms and shotguns proofed. Think of how long it takes to load a muzzle loading revolver; then it is placed into a safety chamber and fired six times at 30% more than the recommended maximum charge; then taken out and checked for damage. The attached photograph shows part of the Uberti despatch area. The sheer number of guns produced in these factories renders it physically impossible to test fire and check every one.


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    Chance

  15. #75
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    [QUOTE=Chance;4481112]
    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post

    "Each and every blackpowder firearm must pass a pressure proof test in the official CIP proof house of Gardone to receive the modern blackpowder proof marks. QUOTE]


    There is only one proof house in Italy and that is in Gardone. It carries out other work such as testing stab vests. Consider that in that area of Italy you have Uberti, Pietta, Chiappa, Pedersoli, Beretta and a myriad of small gunmakers, all needing firearms and shotguns proofed. Think of how long it takes to load a muzzle loading revolver; then it is placed into a safety chamber and fired six times at 30% more than the recommended maximum charge; then taken out and checked for damage. The attached photograph shows part of the Uberti despatch area. The sheer number of guns produced in these factories renders it physically impossible to test fire and check every one.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Chance
    are you sayin...........?
    So that is at least two of us that dont entirely believe the proof house story .............
    every gun test fired ? ..........Nah!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post

    "Each and every blackpowder firearm must pass a pressure proof test in the official CIP proof house of Gardone to receive the modern blackpowder proof marks.
    ... The sheer number of guns produced in these factories renders it physically impossible to test fire and check every one.

    Chance
    do you have empirical data that the Gardone proof house has stamped proof marks on barrels that have not been tested?

    if so, that would lead to a really huge scandal of epic proportions, and lots of fines and jail time.

  17. #77
    Boolit Mold Chance's Avatar
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    I don't have any proof but just do the maths. I saw a shotgun go through proof. The gun was broken down, pressure bearing parts measured, re-assembled and tested then broken down again and re-measured. How many Italian shotgun manufacturers can you name? All sending guns to Gardone.


    Chance

  18. #78
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    without proof (pun intended) you have nothing but theory.

    get the proof that there are guns leaving gardone with proof marked barrels that haven't actually been proofed, to back up yer statement.

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
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    and the beat goes on!!

  20. #80
    Boolit Master arcticap's Avatar
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    My theory is that the proof houses have inspectors who do the proof testing on site at the facilities of the major manufacturers.
    That way the proof testing gets expedited in a timely fashion as the guns are being produced.
    The inspectors would be working in their official capacity to save time & money, with the companies even providing them with the proper equipment to do their job as required.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check