Cheap India guns

[smokeywolf]

I'm not a real trusting person. Wasn't there so didn't see the musket loaded. Could have been "operator malfunction". As far as the manufacturer goes, I just don't see a whole lot of wisdom in buying something, especially something that is supposed to contain an explosion, from someone or an entity that has little if anything to lose if that item fails.

Also, there is reason to be suspicious when a particular country has a well publicized reputation for both producing junk and treating their workers like k-rap.

[indian joe]

so you guys are saying you can shoot a round ball out of a gun but cant put a wad over the charge and shoot it.

NO ......I am saying careless use of toilet paper wadding (using it in excess amount) could easily create a bore obstruction situation and blow a barrel that was quite safe with a normal round ball load. We dont know what was done to blow this barrel OR it may have just been **** steel

Someplace there was a detailed analysis of one of these blows and the conclusion at the end was the re enector had not cleaned his gun (go above to Toot post #9) the crud steadily built up part way down bore until it became a bore obstruction - there was talk of oil of some sort that added to the caking - who knows - always we need to consider is the guy (who does the analysis) out to prove a particular idea or to disprove something else

I read an article in our shooters journal back in the late 60's (maybe), titled "Guns, Hashish and Coca Cola" .....story of the Khyber Pass gunmakers - with a hand powered lathe, files and chisel - these guys could make a copy of any gun you wanted - but they couldnt get decent steel - (had they been able to they probably couldnt machine it with their crude gear) - the writer said the AK47 might only shoot a couple of magazines full before it blew - he ended by saying these guys would (almost) give their right arm for a proper made Lee enfield rifle because the knew it was made from good steel.

[indian joe]

My biggest issue with the Indian made flintlocks are that they are shipped without a touch-hole drilled...so these are not fired or proofed at the factory in any manner.

If they are shipped without a touch-hole drilled that pretty much lets the Indians off the hook (smart plan hey?) Whoever drills that hole turns it from an unfireable ornament into a working firearm. All we need now is some lawyer that works no win-no pay!!

[reivertom]

The question to ask is..."Is saving a few hundred bucks on a musket worth your fingers, eyesight, or life?" There are too many good quality, Italian made muskets around to shoot this 3rd World trash.

[waksupi]

As far as no vent being drilled, that is a requirement for some countries to export. I know the Black Watch pistols out of England also come without the vent drilled.
The only India gun I closely inspected, had only a quarter inch of thread engagement on the breech plug. I've had others report the same thing. No way in hell would I ever touch that one off. The only reason I would ever allow one in my shop, is to fill the bore with cement so someone didn't hurt their self.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have seen some of these guns that looked good on the outside, but I also saw a sectioned barrel on a tower pistol that had a shrink fitted breach plug, I fired a simular gun in reenactments. That pistol got a cutting torch. I was at an reenactionment where a group of French Marines [renactactors ] were invited to shoot their guns at targets. We obtained ffg and round balls. We had arguments from some of them, they wanted to use their standard 110 grain load of ffffg that they used in blanks.

[Earlwb]

Well, if the India guns come without the flash hole drilled, then these guns are for decoration only, not to be fired. They can't proof them like that of course. Any excuse or story they come up with as to why is just lying about it.

[Ragnarok]

Well, if the India guns come without the flash hole drilled, then these guns are for decoration only, not to be fired. They can't proof them like that of course. Any excuse or story they come up with as to why is just lying about it.

That's likely what the Indian manufacturers figure...easier to import into delicate locations as a non-firing replica....drill the flash-hole at your own risk. These have supposedly got better since the mentioned 2007 musket burst...however no flash-hole...no factory fire or proofs. Does not mean I won't buy a US pattern M1795 musket from them....just means I want someone else to pick scrap-iron from their face after a shot and tell me they are good to go!

[Hamish]

A good cautionary topic about these pieces of pure ****.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/brit...cdfb79863ce6b3

The amount of ignorance and insanity in that thread just flat gives me the willies,,,,,,,.

[mazo kid]

Yes, the India guns are made to a price. Yes, they come from there without touch holes being drilled. I think that makes them a non-firearm to get around shipping hassles. There was a long discussion about the DOM barrels on the Muzzleloading Forum; lots of opinions on how safe (or not) those guns are. Many years ago in the old Black Powder Report magazine put out by John Baird, he and Jerry Cunningham (Sharon Rifle Co?) were having an ongoing debate over the relative safety of repro gun barrels. Cunningham ran tests using ELECTRICAL CONDUIT! and it took a LOT of powder before the pipe finally blew, don't remember the amount after all these years. I guess my take is to know your gun, take care in loading and cleaning and observe all safety considerations. I have a friend who has an India-made double barrel flint fowler; he did extensive work reshaping the wood and has not had any problem shooting normal loads.

[mazo kid]

Another question.....110 grains of "black powder". What kind and what granulation? 110 grains of ffffg? Maybe loaded from the priming horn? Lots of unknowns yet.

[marlin39a]

Who's selling these junk guns in the US? I've never seen one.

[Nobade]

Who's selling these junk guns in the US? I've never seen one.

http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket1.htm

[rfd]

Who's selling these junk guns in the US? I've never seen one.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/index.shtml

[Steppenwolf]

The amount of ignorance and insanity in that thread just flat gives me the willies,,,,,,,.

Something like this thread.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

is the breech plug welded or threaded? If its threaded, there certainly doesnt look like enough. 1/4" or less.

[indian joe]

http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket1.htm

Non-Firing State

We sell historically accurate muskets and pistols in a non-firing state. This allows us to comply with various local, state, national and international firearms regulations, along with shipping company policy restrictions. A certified gunsmith may decide to alter a musket or pistol to a firing state by drilling the vent hole and test firing it. We are not legally responsible for any alteration from its present non-firing state. Please read our Conditions of Use and Legal Disclaimer. The customer is expected to be aware of the laws of their locality that govern products of this nature.

[indian joe]

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/index.shtml

Terms & Conditions

All of our muzzleloading guns are shipped in an active state, ready to load and use unless you request otherwise.

Our muzzleloaders all carry a limited lifetime warranty on the lock. This warranty covers wear and parts breakage including frizzen wear. To be covered under the warranty, the lock must be in unmodified condition and reasonably maintained. Lock repairs are free for the first 12 months after purchase. After 12 months, there is a $10 fee.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Finger cots, a finger off a rubber glove, or a "rubber" would do to protect your muzzle from filling with gunk, alternatively. Best to remove before firing if you can, for best accuracy. A balloon definitely works.

[waksupi]

Yes, the India guns are made to a price. Yes, they come from there without touch holes being drilled. I think that makes them a non-firearm to get around shipping hassles. There was a long discussion about the DOM barrels on the Muzzleloading Forum; lots of opinions on how safe (or not) those guns are. Many years ago in the old Black Powder Report magazine put out by John Baird, he and Jerry Cunningham (Sharon Rifle Co?) were having an ongoing debate over the relative safety of repro gun barrels. Cunningham ran tests using THINWALL ELECTRICAL CONDUIT! and it took a LOT of powder before the tubing finally blew, don't remember the amount after all these years. I guess my take is to know your gun, take care in loading and cleaning and observe all safety considerations. I have a friend who has an India-made double barrel flint fowler; he did extensive work reshaping the wood and has not had any problem shooting normal loads.

They also tested a paper towel roll, with duct tape wrapped around it. I wouldn't want to shoot that either!