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Thread: Ideal no. 4 32 colt NP

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Ideal no. 4 32 colt NP

    I was wondering if anyone here has this tool, im looking for a picture of the mold. I have seen the no.4 in 32 s&w long, and was wondering if the molds were different. Any help at all will be appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy hockeynick39's Avatar
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    I don't own one, but just looked at my QuickLoad caliber list and they list the caliber as .32 S&W Long N.P and there is no listing for the .32 Colt N.P. Not saying that it is correct, but many companies of that time frame wanted their company name on their ammo for their firearms, but the ammo could fit in the chambers of both firearms. It's the same for the .38 S&W Long and .38 Colt N.P. Hope this narrows a few things down for you and helps some. Good luck and stay safe.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Guesser's Avatar
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    Quite possibly the 32 Colt N.P. mold would be for the 100 gr. RNFP that colt had loaded in all 32 N.P. ammunition. I have a box of Remington 32 N.P. ammunition from the late 1950's and it has the specified nose and weight bullets. The 32 S&W Long bullet is duplicated by Ideal 313226 mold.

  4. #4
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    Not the same tool - But i have a set of Lyman 310 dies factory marked on the box as 32 Colt N. P. Seems the designation may have been in use by Lyman/Ideal
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guesser View Post
    Quite possibly the 32 Colt N.P. mold would be for the 100 gr. RNFP that colt had loaded in all 32 N.P. ammunition. I have a box of Remington 32 N.P. ammunition from the late 1950's and it has the specified nose and weight bullets. The 32 S&W Long bullet is duplicated by Ideal 313226 mold.
    This is my guess as well. The colt new police rounds that i have are a round nose flat point, and the s&w long rounds are a round nose. Both are copper primers. Im pretty sure they were different molds on the #4 tool. I was hoping someone here could confirm that for me. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    The bullet listed as "standard" for .32 Colt N.P. in the old Lyman and Ideal handbooks, from No.9 (1898) thru No.39 (1953), is No.31357, a 100 grain RNFP. This is the bullet design that would have been used in the No.4 tool for the Colt cartridge.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jim


  7. #7
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    This is a bullet cast from a #4 tool marked .32 NP


    It is the predecessor bullet to the 31357 which has a slightly deeper and narrower lube groove.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies View Post
    This is a bullet cast from a #4 tool marked .32 NP


    It is the predecessor bullet to the 31357 which has a slightly deeper and narrower lube groove.
    Thank you sir! That is exactly what i was looking for. I was pretty sure it was a different mold.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmartin1964 View Post
    The bullet listed as "standard" for .32 Colt N.P. in the old Lyman and Ideal handbooks, from No.9 (1898) thru No.39 (1953), is No.31357, a 100 grain RNFP. This is the bullet design that would have been used in the No.4 tool for the Colt cartridge.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	31357.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	14.2 KB 
ID:	228070

    Jim
    Thankyou, now i know what mold is closest to the original tool. You guys are the best.

  10. #10
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    This is the Winchester version as cast from a Win mold dating to about 1910. Both load fine in the #4 tool.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies View Post
    This is the Winchester version as cast from a Win mold dating to about 1910. Both load fine in the #4 tool.

    I was unaware that Winchester had a mold. See, I like to learn about the old time tools. Thanks again for all of your help. You guys are the best.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies View Post
    This is the Winchester version as cast from a Win mold dating to about 1910. Both load fine in the #4 tool.

    I was unaware that Winchester had a mold. See, I like to learn about the old time tools. Thanks again for all of your help. You guys are the best.

  13. #13
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    Winchester made a bunch of molds in the late 19th and very early 20th centuries for a lot of different cartridges.

    One of my favorite little bullets for the .32 S&W long is this one made by winchester for the 32-20 marlin cartridge, it's about 90 grains, and shoots very well!



    The naming schema is interesting among a lot of cartridges of the era. I need to write a bunch of that stuff up at some point...
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    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies View Post
    Winchester made a bunch of molds in the late 19th and very early 20th centuries for a lot of different cartridges.

    One of my favorite little bullets for the .32 S&W long is this one made by winchester for the 32-20 marlin cartridge, it's about 90 grains, and shoots very well!



    The naming schema is interesting among a lot of cartridges of the era. I need to write a bunch of that stuff up at some point...
    As you can probably tell, im fairly new to the old type tools and molds. But they just fascinate me for the simplicty. I can nust picture in my mind some old cowboy sitting by a campfire making up rounds. I hope to someday have the funds to collect said tools. Again, thanks very much for all of the information.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Hey NZ, I've always counted the 32 Colt NP and 32 S&W L as equivalent except for details of exact bullet shape and weight. In your research, is that about correct? I like that 31357 bullet, but it seems it would be more accurate if it had a crimping groove so it could leave a full diameter driving band ahead and outside of the case. From all indications, it seems like somewhere around 100 grains is a sweet spot for the 32 S&W and Colt rounds.

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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Froggie,

    That older design bullet dates from the black powder era and didn't need a crimp groove, because a compressed charge of black powder would provide base support for the bullet. The ample lube groove is also indicative of black powder use.
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  17. #17
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    Great thread, folks! Cast Boolits at its best.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Froggie,

    That older design bullet dates from the black powder era and didn't need a crimp groove, because a compressed charge of black powder would provide base support for the bullet. The ample lube groove is also indicative of black powder use.
    Would the old rounds that I have with the copper primers be a black powder round possibly?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    Hey NZ, I've always counted the 32 Colt NP and 32 S&W L as equivalent except for details of exact bullet shape and weight. In your research, is that about correct? I like that 31357 bullet, but it seems it would be more accurate if it had a crimping groove so it could leave a full diameter driving band ahead and outside of the case. From all indications, it seems like somewhere around 100 grains is a sweet spot for the 32 S&W and Colt rounds.

    Froggie
    Your observations about the .32 NP mimic my own. I've also read period literature stating that the two are interchangeable in both guns and reloading data.

    In practice, the RCBS 98 gr SWC has generally shot at least as well for me as either Ideal or Winchester designs. It also has the crimping groove you'd like to see. Since NOE makes a multi-cavity copy of that bullet, I tend to cast and load more of that design than the original NP bullet, or for a heavier load the 3118 (311008) does good work.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Several years ago I bought a set of Ideal mold blocks in the 313226 pattern, single cavity. This mold drops boolits at .313 diameter with a weight of 98 grains. I used it to create factory duplication loads for the various .32 S&W Long revolvers I own. Some time later I saw an Ideal tong tool offered for sale that was marked only "32 NP" and bought it. The mold cavity produces a flat nose boolit without crimp groove, as-cast diameter is .316 and weighs 105 grains (perhaps I used a different alloy, not sure). The closest sizing die I have for these 2 molds is .313 and I use it for both mold patterns, suspect some spring-back on the .32 NP boolits (but have not measured them after sizing). I wanted the NP mold to feed the Colt revolvers I have in this caliber and the NP boolits do, for whatever reason, group tighter than the RN patterns from the 313226 mold, in these Colts. Karma? Don't know, but it is still a joy to be able to create these loads. As cor the powder charges, I would have to dig deeply into my loading notes to find where I settled but be assured they are in the 800 +/- FPS range. No hot rod loads for these older firearms as I have other 32 caliber firearms to use if that is the goal.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check