Tinsel Fairy/Today's Smelting

[wv109323]

I was smelting lead today. On 6 ocassions I had an explosion in the smelting pot. Relax I did not get burnt. I do not understand what the problem was. I have smelted numerous times before with no problems.
I use a Coleman stove with a cast iron pot. This is what I was smelting.
Wheel weights both COWW and SOWW.
About 700 commercially cast boolits with lube
Lead shot
Range scrap with jacketed and coated boolits
Some lead pipe joints.
Of this what could cause a small explosion?
I have smelted all the above except lead shot. One pot had four explosions in close
proximity to each other.
Could bullet lube cause a explosion?
Could a coated bullet explode?
Could lead shot if oxidized explode?
The pipe joints were layered and appeared to have some rust. Could that cause a problem? The joints were very soft.
I am sure there was no water involved. All lead has been indoors for the lastime 2 weeks. Range scrap 6 months.
By explosion I mean a crack with enough force to blow out a bullet abouto 6 feet from the pot. I would load the lead into the pot and as it was melting,5-10 minutes later it would explode. Apparently as the material would fall into the molten lead it would pop.
Your thoughts

[rancher1913]

lead shot sometimes gets a hard coating on it that acts as a pressure vessel, when the lead gets hot enough it pops. don't know if that was your problem or not.

[MyFlatline]

Fully jacketed will pop. I always try and cut the 9's and 45's with side cutters. Yep learnt the hard way..

[Dusty Bannister]

When I am melting lead shot from a carnival shooting gallery it does a lot of popping like the paper Fourth of July poppers that come in a box. Sometimes they snap pretty good. I would not call them an "explosion".

There is not very much air circulation in a bucket of lead scrap, especially densely packed scrap, inside in a stable temperature. They would likely retain the moisture for a very long time. This is a good reminder to bring the metal up to melting temperature slow enough to allow the moisture to evaporate before the metal melts. Good to hear no injury. Six incidents and you did not stop to figure it out before doing it again ???

[kevin c]

I'm glad you didn't get hurt!

Unmelted lead is denser than molten lead, so any scrap added to a pot with liquid alloy will tend sink. If the scrap is a cast bullet with hard lube that hadn't melted or burned off before sinking, I'm thinking that it will flash into vapor under the surface.

[Walks]

Can't be water, the heat would evaporate it, unless there was a lot of it inside a sealed container. Probably the full copper encapsulated bullets bursting when the lead core melts and expands. The resulting wave from the rapid expansion may be blowing a solid object above it out of the pot.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I am sure I am not alone in finding that, as I age, I enjoy "Surprises" like that, less and less! Glad you weren't hurt. A nice cover on the pot is a GOOD idea, I need to cover mine (tho usually I've just been dropping ingots in there, pretty safe.)

[georgerkahn]

Also happy you sustained no injuries, your experience has really piqued my curiosity as to its cause. I agree copper jacketed bullets do sometimes "pop" -- the side-cutter trick is a good one to employ. Some lead pipe joints have compounds in them, but my experience has been their smell while smelting (yuck!) as only pit-fall. If it were me, you have enough repeat incidents to merit a bit of "scientific research"? To wit, next session segregate all the components you're planing to smelt into separate piles/boxes. Then, you can JUST put in, say, the wheel weights -- and see what happens. If these do not pop, then put in your lead shot. And, so on and so on. Wearing (I hope) safety goggles and long-sleeved shirt & trousers (as opposed to shorts) while doing it this way, you will readily determine what pot addition is indeed the culprit. I, personally, am very suspicious re "range scrap... but, again, if you were to segregate, you'll be able to get a handle on, and hopefully eliminate your explosions. As a btw, I have a "square" of old window-screening I keep atop my cast iron kettle when (using LP plumber-type propane stove) I smelt. It has caught/stopped quite nicely everything which has wished to egress the pot.
BEST!
geo

[Mr_Sheesh]

Oooh CAREFUL, georgerkahn, you'll get people thinking scientific-like and finding actual causes! Another good idea is to have a COVER on top of the cast iron pot, that should keep the Tinsel Fairy somewhat under control. Your screen works, I've used scrap aluminum, ANYTHING that stops that Pb from flying into our faces works!

(A local friend knows a guy, "Ted", long story. For 2-3 years anything that happens, I tell him "I blame Ted!" - Just to stir him up as he's a little lacking in humor - He's developed more humor from this. Not saying it's Ted's fault, just that I blame Ted I think next I'll start with "I blame Murphy!" as that's more the case sometimes :P)

Though here, we could all say "I blame the Tinsel Fairy!" and that'd be accurate... Or Murphy!

[frkelly74]

Yeah, cover the pot and let her rip.

[redhawk0]

I agree with getting a cover for the pot. I use an old used Silverado truck rotor as my cover (about 13" diameter...12" pot). Its heavy, and has a hole in the center to add additional material if necessary minimizing the area the tinsel fairy (I named her Gretchen) has to come get me....the center hub hole also helps to keep my ladle warm (how much...I'm not really sure) I just know this method works for me...YMMV.

In general, I don't continuously feed material to my pot. I just start the pot from cold, cast ingots...then refill if the session calls for more material.

redhawk

[jsizemore]

I've found live rounds in indoor range scrap. I've bought old ladles with a bit of surface rust. When set on top of the melt they would pop and jump a little. Some of the old water pipe I've got from the scrapyard was cut up with large bolt cutters and never had the chance to dry out. I split it open with chisel/hatchet and hammer and let it air dry/ or set on top of the melt. I spread my range scrap on the table and sort.

[Mr_Sheesh]

If I suspected that anything I was planning to toss into my melting pot was wet - I'd toss it in the toaster oven for 20 minutes at 300 degrees (or more) and dry it out! I value my eyes and thighs and all of the rest of me

[lightman]

I suspect the explosions you heard were your range scrap. It could be a couple of different things. It could be a complete enclosed full metal jacket bullet bursting. Or it could be live rounds cooking off. They just have a way of getting into range scrap! You hardly ever have steam explosions from water if you add the material to the pot before you have any molten lead. The process of getting hot enough to melt lead usually cooks off any moisture before it causes a problem. I don't melt much range scrap but if I did I would have a cover on my pot.

Glad you were not hurt from this.

And for the record, I will not add material to melted lead. I might turn the fire down enough to let the lead harden and add to it but I won't drop anything in when its liquid.

[dondiego]

I have had lead pipe, especially at the joints, pop while melting. Not sure if it was trapped water in rust or a big spider or eggs, but the stuff had been in the barn for a long time.

[NyFirefighter357]

Range scrap with jacketed and coated boolits

FMJ bullets need to be split open with something like a hammer or side cutters or the pressure will build up inside as the lead heats up and burst the jacket.

[Grmps]

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[NyFirefighter357]

I once was melting some pulled bullets in a ladle with a torch, boy was I surprised when the tracer went off! Someone gave me a bunch of range scrap, I used a dutch oven with the lid. I heard several pops. Now I make sure they are smashed.

[sureYnot]

I've never had range ore explode. Occasionally likes to put up a little geyser though. I'm married, so don't care much about my face. But this is where ye olde safety glasses come in. Ugly, I can live with. Blind, not so much.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[alamogunr]

This is a little off topic and I apologize for that. Several years ago I purchased about a ton of "range scrap" from a caster that supplied boolits to a large police dept and sheriff's dept. His raw material was primarily from their practice ranges.

This stuff was very powdery and oxidized. I took it anyway and set up in a friends cow pasture. Before I could get started it rained(hard) and although I covered it with a tarp, the tarp was old and not completely waterproof. When I got to it the next day, the top buckets(I had double stacked them) were very damp. I started off with the bottom buckets which were dry. Finally, I had to decide what to do with the damp buckets. Since I was well covered and had a full face mask, I decided to see if this stuff would cause a problem. I very carefully slid a shovel full into the pot and stood back. This stuff just sat there on top and steamed away. I know it was wet because the shovel was very wet after the material went into the pot. As long as I didn't just dump it in and kept the pot over half full of melt, it worked fine.


I finished all the scrap but had a lot of oxidized lead on top despite heavy fluxing. It was obvious that I wasn't getting the best yield from my efforts but since I only paid about 10¢/lb I wasn't going to put extreme effort into inproving it. I was using scrap candles so maybe not as efficient as some other materials. I ended up with two or three full buckets of skimmed material.

The point is that moisture in this particular instance was not a problem. I have had entrapped moisture cause problems but not to the point of an explosion. Moisture in WW can usually be controlled by spreading them out on a driveway on a hot summer day. Works in Tennessee but maybe not somewhere else.