When are 45LC loads too hot...?

[Drm50]

I don't load 45Colt hot. I SAs I load 250g FN cast/ 9.0g Unique. I killed several deer with this load out of Ruger BH. I have model 25s S&Ws that I only shoot cast 237gr WC/ 12.0g Win 630 at 750fps
W-630 is obsolete but I have come into 16lbs to shoot up. I also killed a deer with this WC load. I
admit it wasn't a Elmer 600 yarder, more like 30yds. I got Ruger SBH 44mg and is only handgun I
own that is shot hot. That is because of accuracy not for the sake of hot rodding.

[lar45]

In my experience, it's the brass that's the weak link with the 45LC.
I own a dozen S&W revolvers and the 45LC is the only one that goes through cases so quickly.

The 45 Colt brass is made from the same stuff that they make all of the other cases from. You can take 45 Colt brass, load it to 60kpsi and shoot it in a 454 and the brass is fine.
Your S&W 45 probably has overly large chambers, so that's probably why the brass fails.

[charlie b]

I agree that the Rugers can be loaded hot and take it easily. I could not. My BH was very accurate with hot loaded 255 and 300 cast bullets. I had that thing about a year and fired probably 1000 rounds through it. The last session my elbow hurt (my wrist would always hurt after a session). I was only 40 and felt that continued abuse of my arm would not be good. So, I traded off the pistol.

If I ever decided I needed a pistol for bear country it would be a DA in .460 or .454

[Silver Jack Hammer]

My brass splits in the SAA if I full length resize. When I neck resize the brass fired in my Colt’s .45 lasts forever. I own 5 Colt’s SAA in .45 Colt and 1 Ruger BH in .45 Colt. My Colt’s are 3rd gen’s. The Colt’s company still cuts their cylinders to the Army’s specs to be used with Black powder on the frontier for the cavalry. My neck resized cartridges will not chamber in the Ruger. The splits in the cases were longitudinal along the length in the middle of the case.

[gnostic]

The 45 Colt brass is made from the same stuff that they make all of the other cases from. You can take 45 Colt brass, load it to 60kpsi and shoot it in a 454 and the brass is fine.
Your S&W 45 probably has overly large chambers, so that's probably why the brass fails.

You're probably right about the chambers being oversized. I have a plastic cartridge box of 100 fired cases that I'll measure. The fired case do look somewhat large. I assumed they just looked that way because of the rim on the 45LC case being smaller than on other calibers.

Silver Jack Hammer: I'm going to try partially resizing the cases as you suggest. As long as they chamber and grip the bullet, what could that hurt? My cases split both vertically and horizontally. Some have come out in three pieces...

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I just neck size down to the base of the boolit. My pressures are 3rd gen Colt’s levels. 8 to 8.5 gr. of Unique under my cast 454190 wheel weight alloy sized to .454”

[DocSavage]

With the exception of my 454 SRH my 45 Colt cases come out of my various Ruger SA looking like a Pilsner beer glass with heavy loads

[Potsy]

I tried partial sizing .45 Colts. No joy.

I load for a Bisley on the full sized BH frame and usually run anywhere from 9.0grains of Universal to 25.0 grains of 296 (recoil is brisk!).

With warmer loads, SOME cases wouldn't fit back in the chamber.

I've got some Starline Brass (about 300 pieces that ranges from a few years to 18 years old) that has survived being sized in a Lee Carbide die several times very well. Only couple split necks. I also have a hundred pieces of CBC brass that I run my 9.0grn H-Universal load in exclusively. That batch has been loaded at least 5 times and I've not lost a case yet.

My biggest issue with oversized chambers is that I well know that a case that fits the chamber will give better accuracy in a rifle, and when I hear my cartridges rattling around in my revolver like jingle bells, I can't help but think that's not doing me any favors. Maybe it's all in my head.

Redding makes a .45 Colt sizing die with two carbide rings. One at the top that sizes the case down enough to grip a .452 bullet, and one at the bottom that's wider and doesn't size the case down as much as say, my Lee Carbide die with one ring. Whenever I'm sitting on an extra C-note, I've been meaning to pick one up.

In any normal frame 6-shot revolver, the .45 Colt is an absolute monster of a cartridge. Even at 15,000CUP in an old Colt or Clone, it's still more powerful than a pretty warm .45 ACP. At 20,000, the only cartridge that can get in the room with it is a .44 Magnum. At 32,000, it's in a league of it's own (if you care to shoot it). As a bonus, .45 holes in a cylinder and barrel make for a lighter gun than .44 holes. Ain't no replacement for displacement.

It's only downfall is that in 145 years, chamber/barrel/bullet/case dimensions have run all over the place, but that seems to be getting better with newer guns. And if you don't think other cartridges have suffered the same issues, you've not wandered around this site very much.........

[Messy bear]

Silver Jack number 24 is right on. Guys this isnt rocket science. If you work the brass it's hard on it. Use the 4 th die in the Lee die set. It's the much hated and miss named factory crimp die. Use the above advice and neck size and follow with 4 th die to bump the body so they chamber. Been workin for years on various chambers from lever guns to Colt ssa to the usually tighter rugers.

[RED BEAR]

i don't understand if a 45 lc loaded to normal pressures isnt enough then buy a bigger gun. i have ended up with quite a few guns over the years using this reasoning. if there ain't enough room in the safe then thats a good reason for another safe. i imagine a 460 , 480 or 500 mag would look nice in the safe.

[Walks]

I've been loading .45COLT for my own Revolvers since 1975. A RUGER NM BLACKHAWK 4 5/8" was the 2nd New Handgun I ever bought myself.
I've loaded it as hot as anybody can. Put a Super BlackHawk grip frame on it, as I do all my BlackHawks. Gives that extra length my big mitts require.

Bought 3 boxes of REMINGTON 45COLT Brass to go with it. First new 45COLT Brass I ever had to Load. A new LYMAN #452424 2cav was purchased to go along with it. Started casting right off, so I'd have ammo ready to go. Just as soon as I could pick up my new REVOLVER at the end of the waiting period.

Didn't think about it ahead of time. I expanded the case mouths and chamfered & deburred them. Cases were just about minimum, so they didn't need trimming. Then I primed the new brass cases and charged them with 9.0 grs of UNIQUE. Then came the fun part. I started a fresh cast and lubed .452 sized 250gr SWC into the case.

It fell straight down on to the powder. I forgot to size the cases first. Later found out back then REMINGTON Brass was made to take the factory .456 diameter RNFP Hollow Base bullet.

I'd loaded new .357MAG cases without sizing first.

Then I started experimenting with hotter & hotter loads.
Never changed bullets or sizing. The bore was .451, chamber mouths ran .451-453, accuracy was always good, until I hit 18grs of 2400. Then it went down the tubes, leading too. Guess the 50/50 mix of WW & #2 had reached it's limit.
And so had my hands. Muzzle whip had gotten to be a bit too much.

Moved on to the .44MAG. Left the hot .45COLT Loads behind. Went back to 9grs of UNIQUE under the .452424. It was too Long an OAL for an Italian SAA replica. So I got an ancient #454190 4cav & loaded 7.5grs of UNIQUE. A great plinking load, for the Italian gun and my COLT .45 Revolvers too.

But I missed the hot .45COLT load. But rather then buy a RUGER with a 7 1/2" bbl.
I bought a CASULL in .454, with a 7 1/2" bbl. Now I could load the 45caliber as hot as I wanted.

Then a pair of RUGER VAQUERO'S, SN prefix #55 .
Tried the old hot loads in them, they shot well. Almost to same POI as my COWBOY LOADS.

But I'd sold off the CASULL by then. To finance more Cowboy guns.

I never worried a bit about hot loads in those early VAQUERO'S. They handled the few hundred hot loads I tried without a problem.
But I did touch off a few in a New VAQUERO just after I bought it in 2005.
BOY HOWDY!!!! That was an experience! Just like shooting my old CASULL with the Beautiful ROSE WOOD Grips. Hard on the whole hand. PACHMAYR'S Tamed the CASULL.
But they're not for a Cowboy Action Revolver. The New cheap skinny grips that RUGER now puts on many of it's SA revolvers are absolute JUNK. They may be ok for a child or small female's hands.
I made a New Pair of Walnut panels of the same thickness as the Ruger Walnut panels on my Ruger .32 H&R Single Six.
Made the revolver much more comfortable to shoot with any load.
And the .45COLT Loads with the #452424 just barely fit into the shorter cylinder of the New VAQUERO.

I feel the New VAQUERO'S should only be used with nothing hotter then top end loads for the COLT SAA.

[kingrj]

Have owned and reloaded for .45 colt cartridge for over 30 years...All my .45 colt guns have been Rugers with the large frame so I have NO experience with Colet 1873's or Smith's in that caliber but it is very difficult to determine pressure levels of various loads without dedicated pressure measurement equipment. However an inexpensive chronograph and careful powder selection can get you close. As long as you don't use any powder faster than Unique you can feel good about 255 grain bullets at 900-950 fps. Always use a good reloading manual to start with and work up slowly to those velocities and you should be in normal .45 colt pressures. If I want a more powerful load then I go directly to H-110 or WW296 with the 255 grain bullets and heavier...I do not try to push that bullet faster than about 1250 or a 300 grain faster than about 1100 using those slow powders and these loads are accurate, the cases fall out of the cylinders and recoil is not bad. The chronograph is a good tool to use...if you want really hot loads then do NOT use fast powders and load until the chronograph tells you that your are in the velocity range of the hotter load data out there like the Buffalo Bore loadings...

[DougGuy]

I had one vaquero that had a steady diet of a 320s with 25 grains of 110 for years. Probably thousands of them. It did get a bit loose after a couple years of it but I sure didn't worry about it blowing up.

I reckon you know you were likely a bit north of 30kpsi right?