When are 45LC loads too hot...?

[dlbarr]

I know...depends on the gun..

Just took ownership of an old model Ruger Vaquero (SN 55-xxxxx) and curious to know where you think the line is between that gun and the Blackhawk? I don't expect, although I don't know by any means, that the old Vaquero can be loaded heavy enough to dispatch heavy/dangerous game. Would be interested to hear what viewpoints there are on this and what max loads are within reason for this revolver.

That said, I most often load on the lighter side with most of my stuff. But I'm just curious....

[fishnbob]

I think what you can comfortably shoot and enjoy is a fur piece from a max load in the Vaquero and bullet weights play a factor as well. Start with a "suggested starting load" and ease up from there. Your hand will tell you where to stop.
Good shooting, enjoy!

[Don Purcell]

Heavy, dangerous game would be no problem.

[Harry O]

The OLD model Vaquero has the same frame and cylinder diameter as their .44 Magnum Blackhawk. There have been a number of articles on loading the .45 Colt to match the .44 Magnum (with a little heavier bullet and a little bit less pressure). If that is what you want to do, check them out.

I have an old model Vaquero in 44-40 (yea, it had all the bad tolerances/dimensions you have heard about). I finally got it to shoot pretty well with 200gr jacketed soft-nose bullets with 18.5gr of 2400. That is stiff, but not at the limit of the gun. It is pretty close to the limit of the brass, however.

[DougGuy]

Your TWO DIGIT prefix Vaquero is good to 30,000psi all day all week all year... Same as a 45 caliber BH or SBH. 44 mag max pressures are 36,000psi, the 44 has thicker cylinder walls and webs (because the chamber and throats are smaller) than the 45 has, and the 45 caliber should be held to 30,000psi for this reason.

[osteodoc08]

https://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm
https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings

Two excellent articles about the 45 colt.

You have a “Two digit” vaquero meaning it is built on the larger Blackhawk frame and can take “Ruger only” 45 colt Loads

***WARNING*** “Three Digit” new model vaqueros made after 2004 (IIRC) are built on the smaller 357 Mag frames and SHOULD NOT USE RUGER ONLY LOAD DATA!!!

[smkummer]

The plow handle grip frame will tell you were to stop. A 250 gr. bullet at 9-950 FPS, which can be obtained with standard colt pressure can do a lot. You might even down load that a bit for plinking. I used to have some Ruger loads for my 45 anaconda, but if something would ever happen to me, those might find there way into my colt single actions. So now I will only load those and shoot them up the same day, which as been a long time ago.

[contender1]

All the info above is correct. You can load your original Vaquero to the same safe loads as a Blackhawk. The New Vaquero is built on a smaller frame,, and isn't quite as stout as an original, 2-digit version.

[Potsy]

I load some stuff hotter for my Bisley, but a 270SAA over 9.0 grains of Unique or Universal would likely lengthwise any critter I'm apt to come across and shoot at with a pistol. It should only churn around 20kpsi (according to Brian Pearce) making it safe in either frame.

[lar45]

If your brass sticks then you are way too hot and should back off a couple of grains.
+1 to what everybody else said, 28-30kpsi is about where you should stop. Hodgdon has load data for the Ruger Level 45Colt. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
2400 is a great powder for medium to high end loads. 4227 has about the same burn rate as H110 but is bulkier and is another great powder for max loads.
The 45Colt is one of my absolute favorite cartridges. I've had a stainless 4 5/8" Blackhawk since 93ish and have vary rarely shot my 44 mag since I got the 45. A close second is a 5.5" Bisley. I love the Houge MonoGrip on the Blackhawk.

[Don Purcell]

Elmer Keith mentioned a guy that was given a 7 1/2 Colt Single Action .45 by this fellows father when he left home as a very young man. He carried the Colt all his long life and I believe he was even buried with it, but he took a lot of game with it from deer, elk, moose and bison. If a "weak" Colt can do that then a Ruger would not even be straining with the same loads or even slightly warmer.

[bob208]

I read where the cowboys with T.R. on his hunting trip killed a griz. with their colts with b-p loads.
I say if you want a magnum buy a magnum don't try to make one out of a gun that is not.

[dlbarr]

I actually spoke with John Linebaugh today and he substantiated everything you all are saying. No concerns about whether the Vaquero will stand up to hot loads at all. A very interesting conversation...he said that the 45LC, loaded correctly, would make a 44 mag "cry". Lots of fascinating stuff he told me. I am a novice at much of this, if you can't already tell.

[Bigslug]

My own penetration tests with cast have been an eye opener, and would lead me to rephrase the OP's question as "When aren't .45LC loads hot enough?"

The original black powder loadings were conceived with the intention of not only stopping men, but horses, and no less an authority than Elmer Keith wrote that if he couldn't handload, he'd carry a .45 Colt. My own hard alloy tinkering with LBT 230 grain LFN's at .45 Auto hardball velocities brought me to the conclusion that there is ample penetration there to double lung an elk at short range. So while you CAN load certain Blackhawks hotter than G.A. Custer's 255 grains at 900-1000 fps, I am not 100% convinced of the NEED. Yes, there's the desire to take the performance farther downrange, but that begins to bring us into the zones of (A.)"this is what rifles are for", and (B.) "this thing just quit being fun to shoot".

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Brian Pearce wrote an interesting article about hot loading the Keith boolit. The article starts out with him shooting an elk. The Keith boolit looses velocity down range at such a rate that a higher muzzle velocity isn’t hitting that much faster than a boolit with a downloaded muzzle velocity down range. In the article his Keith boolit passed through both lungs of the elk and exited. He reasons that a higher velocity wouldn’t have penetrated any more.

[nicholst55]

I worked up to one of the loads that John Linebaugh lists on his website with a nominal 260 grain bullet and a case full of H110 in my 4-5/8" plow handle Blackhawk. I stopped slightly below what he lists as maximum. Wow! While I have no doubt that the load specified would kill anything on the North American continent DRT, it had ceased being fun. It was everything John said it was - accurate and powerful, and the brass ejected very easily; it's just more than I anticipate ever needing.

I now know that the gun will handle it. I also know that I would most definitely not enjoy a steady habit of shooting anything that powerful.

[dubber123]

Linebaugh pressure tests everything, and knows exactly just how much is "too much", at least as far as safety. Your comfort level or need is another matter. 320's at 1,300 are really quite easy to assemble for the 45 Colt, and will run a lot less pressure doing so than a similar 44 Mag load, its just a bigger cartridge, no way around it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I had one vaquero that had a steady diet of a 320s with 25 grains of 110 for years. Probably thousands of them. It did get a bit loose after a couple years of it but I sure didn't worry about it blowing up. I did learn though that its about silly to load them like that or even full snort 44 mag heavy bullets loads. I shot lots of deer sized and bigger game with both with heavies going from a 1000 fps to 1300fps and never noticed the faster ones killed one bit better then the 1000 fps loads. I shot one 1000 lb buffalo with a 44 mag using a 300 rcbs swc gc at a 1000 fps. it went in the front shoulder at an angle broke it and came out the opposite hind quarter. That's about like shooting through 3 or 4 whitetail standing side by side. In typical buffalo fashion it took three or four steps after about no reaction to the shot and fell over dead. Ask John one time on how buffalo act when hit by 475s and 500s. Ive seen them hit and keep eating until they fell over dead. to be totally honest ive hunted deer bear pigs and buffalo with 44s 45s 475s and 500s and saw very little difference in the killing power of any of them. they all kill well with a well placed shot. Same with velocity. Unless your counting on a jacketed bullet to expand getting that last fps means about nothing in handgun hunting. penetration is where its at. Many times ive seen in pentration testing that a heavy cast bullet at a 1000 fps outpenetrates the same bullet at 1400.

[Don Purcell]

Agreed!

[gnostic]

In my experience, it's the brass that's the weak link with the 45LC. I don't load anywhere near the max, as I'm normally shooting at steel plates 20-30 yards away. I've had cases that were loaded 6 or 7 times, fall from the cylinder in 3 pieces. I'm not overworking my brass in the loading process, I've measured the cases before and after loading. I own a dozen S&W revolvers and the 45LC is the only one that goes through cases so quickly.