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Thread: Paradox slug in a smooth bore?

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Paradox slug in a smooth bore?

    Anyone tried a Svarog Paradox slug from eBay in a smooth bore?
    I've been playing with .662, .690 round balls, Lyman Diablo style and a modified Lee key hole slug and I've had some success but my gun is incredibly good with GB foster slugs and I'm thinking that these hollow base Svarog Paradox slugs at .724 on top of a felt wad might come close.
    My other option might be a .730 round ball but I don't like the idea with an imp/cyl choke.
    I might have all the kinks worked out of my modified Lee slugs so it might not be needed, I do however really like the look of the paradox slug and think it would be great for pigs and deer.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy leadhead 500's Avatar
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    For out to around 50 yards the Lyman.735 round ball is about as good as it gets in a improved cylinder choke, shot a ton of them through a smooth bore 870.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Personally I don't think they are weight forward enough and are undersize.

    KrakenFan69 sent me some with the attached wads to test and from my gun they shot sort of okay but not great and that is with the attached wad.

    I have knurled some up then sized back to bore diameter to see if that helps. Have not shot those yet. Knurling then sizing did help with typical Foster style HB slugs in my smoothbore.

    However, without the attached wad I doubt they will do well from smoothbore. It doesn't hurt to try if you have the mould or some slugs but I doubt they will do very well.

    You might want to try 0.678" RB in a shotcup. I've had some quite good results in smoothbore with those and 0.662" RB's in shotcups. The 0.678" RB's are just a hair small in a Winchester shotcup in my gun but one wrap of paper snugs them up nicely. They should be good through a slight choke too. I cloth patch the 0.662" RB's into shotcups and that works well.

    0.735" RB's shoot very well too but I share your concern of bore size round balls and chokes. My gun is cylinder bore.

    Longbow

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
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    Actually trying a cloth patch in a .662 might be interesting, I'd love to get them consistent, the trouble I have with them is they tent to go through the base of the shot cup, some go strait but others go way off course.
    I'm going to try putting two nylon washers in under them to add support and keep them centered, they are on order ATM but maybe with a paper patch in the shot cup too they might work out.
    I tried the modified Lee slugs today, the hot glue stoped them destroying the shot cup but I think I need to take the file to the mold again and add some more weight to the nose.
    If I can put another 4gm up the front then they will be back to being 28gm and will be very nose heavy.
    That's the last thing that I can think of, if it doesn't work then I will try the paradox slug.

    But considering this was going to be my cheap slug project it's become anything but cheap.
    I've spent about $500-$600 working it out so far and that could have bought me 250-300 factory slugs that group like a rifle in my gun.

    But I guess it's ok as I've been having fun with it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Bob9863: One may start this hobby with the idea that you'll save some money but the feeling soon passes. Gp

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I don't know where you are, but in my area $500 would only get you about 150 shots of sabot slugs. I don't know what the name of it is, but there is a mold for a copy of what BPI sells as the dangerous game slug. That one shoots good from a smooth bore.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    I've been shooting GB foster slugs, they shoot a **** near ragged hole at 50 yards, 1st time I tried them I had to shoot a second group because I thought it was a fluke.
    They are about $22 a box of 10 do not horrible price wise, I will probably use them for deer as the ranges here are 50-100 yards most of the time, but for pigs I can go through 200 rounds easy on a weeks hunting trip, sometimes more but the ranges are always under about 60 yards usually 30 yards or less, so I wanted a cheap pump and dump load that would be cheap and effective.
    If I can get around 4" at 50 yards I should be golden, but they have to be reasonably quick and easy to load.
    I could use buckshot and my turkey choke, it throws a great 00 9 pellet buck pattern but they are getting pretty dear now too.
    So if I can convert trap loads to get slugs group around 4" at 50 yards it will be an ideal round for the job.
    I modified my slug mold last night and pumped out 40 more slugs to try, they are now 26.5gn and noticeably front heavy, I mounted a 3-9 scope on the gun to see if my recent problems were with the scope, but these new rounds are the best looking I've made yet and are easy to make so with any luck I might be there.
    I'm going to test then after lunch so fingers crossed.
    If they don't work then the paradox mold will get ordered, but I might get a rifled choke tube too.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy leadhead 500's Avatar
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    If you are shooting a smooth bore with a improved cylinder choke the Lyman.735 round ball is tough to beat, if you go with the rifled choke tube the Lyman 525 is a great slug it shoots great, kills good, and is easy to load

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    For round ball you need to include at least one 16 or 20 nitro card wad under the ball. Otherwise the shotcup bottom tries to swage around the ball leading to failures and inaccuracy.

    Even better is a nitro card wad or two and a small scoop of Cream 'O Wheat on top, just enough for the ball to sit comfortably on and make a "seat".

    When I cloth patch the 0.662" RB's I first select patch material that makes for a snug fit of patched ball in shotcup in the bore ~ snug push through the bore. Then to patch I load the hull with wad and all then patch the ball and insert through the wad fingers. Seems to work pretty well and accuracy can be very good.

    But yes, you need support under that ball, any ball, for accuracy. The shotcups will distort badly otherwise.

    Longbow

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    I've ordered a hundred nylon washers, one .8mm thick with a 4mm hole, one 1mm thick with an 6mm hole, I will put the small hole on the bottom and the large hole on the top like a doughnut wad, I'm hoping that gets the .690 shooting accurate or at least consistent.
    I will do the same with the .662 RB and paper patch it.
    But shooting the GB rifled slugs shows me that this gun loves a bore diameter slug, so the paradox slug might be the big winner.
    I got a price today, I can buy 100 of the super accurate GB slugs for $180 so that's hard to beat. But I will still try casting some paradox slugs, it's just so much fun.

    This is a 45 yards 3 shot group with the GB slugs and a 3 shot group with my modified Lee slugs (last version)
    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Iíve played around with them once.


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  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    What range were you shooting at?

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Okay, I gotta ask because I guess I missed it... are the GB Foster slugs factory loaded rounds or slugs you bought then loaded?

    If factory loaded rounds then that is different.

    I have had some stellar accuracy using factory loaded Foster slugs. So far I have not had such stellar accuracy using home case and loaded slugs. I have had some impressive accuracy using purchased slugs and home loading.

    Its an apples and oranges thing. My take is that consistency is everything and I mean everything. The factories have total control of all components and the reloading procedure and they are using new hulls every time.

    You and I are using generally once fired hulls, or more, most of the time and we do not have the same control of all components or the ability to purchase say 100,000 of the same wads, hulls, primers as the factories do.

    If I could get the same level of accuracy out of my home cast and loaded slugs as I do out of factory slug loads, all the way to 100 yards, i'd be a happy camper. I am sorry to say that so far I have not been able to do that. To 50 yards, I am good. Much beyond 50 yards and that is where accuracy starts to fade with my home cast and loaded slugs.

    Even if I could afford to buy all factory loaded rounds or even factory made slugs (think Brenneke Classic) I wouldn't be satisfied because I want to be able to make and load the slugs myself. I am sure it must be a genetic disorder.

    If nothing else it is an obsession.

    Longbow

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob9863 View Post
    What range were you shooting at?
    That was at 50 yards with a 590A1.


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  15. #15
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Okay, I gotta ask because I guess I missed it... are the GB Foster slugs factory loaded rounds or slugs you bought then loaded?

    If factory loaded rounds then that is different.

    I have had some stellar accuracy using factory loaded Foster slugs. So far I have not had such stellar accuracy using home case and loaded slugs. I have had some impressive accuracy using purchased slugs and home loading.

    Its an apples and oranges thing. My take is that consistency is everything and I mean everything. The factories have total control of all components and the reloading procedure and they are using new hulls every time.

    You and I are using generally once fired hulls, or more, most of the time and we do not have the same control of all components or the ability to purchase say 100,000 of the same wads, hulls, primers as the factories do.

    If I could get the same level of accuracy out of my home cast and loaded slugs as I do out of factory slug loads, all the way to 100 yards, i'd be a happy camper. I am sorry to say that so far I have not been able to do that. To 50 yards, I am good. Much beyond 50 yards and that is where accuracy starts to fade with my home cast and loaded slugs.

    Even if I could afford to buy all factory loaded rounds or even factory made slugs (think Brenneke Classic) I wouldn't be satisfied because I want to be able to make and load the slugs myself. I am sure it must be a genetic disorder.

    If nothing else it is an obsession.

    Longbow
    LB,

    When I got the mold, they had both center pins in the box:
    One for a hollow base and one one for the special tail wad.

    Iíve only loaded one batch up of the hollowbase and the accuracy was eh..... Iíll go back and play around with them some more.

    Since Iíve got a couple thousand of the tail wads, thatís what I used. A little Blue Dot and a roll crimp was all it took.

    I used the same load data that I did when I tested those Italian slugs casted from the Russia mold. Those shot much tighter has all three shots where touching at 50 yards.

    Anyway, this is how it sits with the tail wad attached.




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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Those are a nice slug. I like the design better than the Gualandi clones but whatever works best is what a guy should be shooting. That's the Tusker clone isn't it? They all use the same base wad regardless.

    What I am wondering is why they cast small as if for rifled guns rather than smoothbore. The Paradox slugs KrackenFan69 sent me are 0.727" and it seems to me I've seen more than one post saying the Russian slugs cast at 0.727". If they were to cast at 0.732" or so they should be better suited to smoothbore yet still swage down to suit tighter rifled bores. One man's opinion.

    I also think the wads are a little long and should be more solid. Thinking Brenneke Classic and AQ. Again, one man's opinion.

    So that brings up another question... have you ever tested Brenneke Classic or AQ slugs? I will be in the big city next weekend so if I get a chance I'll go looking for Brenneke Classic slugs. Since AQ's are available at BPI again I may order some too. I haven't seen Brenneke's in many years here. You'd be the the guy to test both!

    Longbow

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Those are a nice slug. I like the design better than the Gualandi clones but whatever works best is what a guy should be shooting. That's the Tusker clone isn't it? They all use the same base wad regardless.

    What I am wondering is why they cast small as if for rifled guns rather than smoothbore. The Paradox slugs KrackenFan69 sent me are 0.727" and it seems to me I've seen more than one post saying the Russian slugs cast at 0.727". If they were to cast at 0.732" or so they should be better suited to smoothbore yet still swage down to suit tighter rifled bores. One man's opinion.

    I also think the wads are a little long and should be more solid. Thinking Brenneke Classic and AQ. Again, one man's opinion.

    So that brings up another question... have you ever tested Brenneke Classic or AQ slugs? I will be in the big city next weekend so if I get a chance I'll go looking for Brenneke Classic slugs. Since AQ's are available at BPI again I may order some too. I haven't seen Brenneke's in many years here. You'd be the the guy to test both!

    Longbow
    Funny you mentioned the Brenneke Classics. I got a couple hundred Slug only that I picked up off eBay and on here. I havenít reloaded them as they are still in the original packing.

    I might just load up a few 12 and 20.


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  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Well, that's someplace I haven't been looking for them, however, if it is eBay.com they wouldn't be able to ship to Canada anyway if I found any.

    About 40 years ago I bought Brenneke Classic slugs for reloading and IIRC they shot pretty well but I'd really have to test again under more consistent and controlled conditions to get a true picture of accuracy. I'd like to retest AQ's too so may order some now that they are available again. The Brennekes I have not seen as reloading components or even factory loaded for many, many years but here in rural B.C. no surprise! Selection of most things is pretty limited and I can't go to Spokane to buy reloading supplies anymore... not since 9/11.

    Yes, if you have some Brenneke slugs I'd love to see some range reports from smoothbore, especially from a good solid smoothbore shot off your lead sled so real slug accuracy potential.

    Longbow

  19. #19
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    The paradox slug might be worth trying out after all, I will see if I can find the proper wads for them.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Okay, I gotta ask because I guess I missed it... are the GB Foster slugs factory loaded rounds or slugs you bought then loaded?

    If factory loaded rounds then that is different.
    They were factory slugs that I used as a benchmark to try and match with my cast slugs.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check