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Thread: Bolt action shotgun woes

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Bolt action shotgun woes

    A friend showed me a 20 ga bolt action with name of Wards Westernfield 16M 20 ga Repeater.
    It has a clip or rather a permanent attached magazine. The gun is really a slick handling gun, loads the mag easily and the bolt slides the shell rim on extractor slick as snot and chambers nicely but on unload it will not throw the shell anywhere. There is a slot in reciever on left side and a coat hanger type wire held on with a small screw that I believe is supposed to do something but it is beyond my thinker! Does this jog any ones memories and have intelligent info for my buddy how to kick the shell clear of gun?
    Look twice, shoot once.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Check the GPC catalog for store brand cross reference to find out what model Mossberg, Stevens, or ? That it is. Has to be the ejector bent or broken. Pics would help!

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Agree, check the gun parts corp. catalog cross reference and some pics would help.
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    "You won't know until you Actually try it"

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I had a 410 bolt gun, had an internal mag, the little flimsy coat hanger thing in the side was supposed to keep the shells in the mag.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    My thoughts also were the wire was to keep shells in mag but how to eject a shell is beyond me unless something is missing. I wish I could do the picture thing but I am too slow for that to happen!
    Look twice, shoot once.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    Unless some guns are operated/cycled with force (hard & fast), the shell's rim isn't brought back fast/hard enough to impact the ejector sharply enough to drive out the empty shell.

    Work the bolt like it owes you money, and see if ejection is improved.



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  7. #7
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Pietro- as a teen one of my friends had a Springfield/Savage pump that had to be worked briskly like you said. I laughed at it because my Ithaca could be pumped by jerking my firing hand to and fro without touching the forearm! My Mother had a .410 Savage pump that had to be pumped like you describe or it would hang itself up. My niece called the other night asking how to unjam it. I told her to shoot it angry and it's fine- which it is!

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The 410 I had only ejected if you were mad at it. Being nice to it you had to dig them out.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I talked to the owner and he said it doesn't eject for him. So it is a useless piece unless fixed and I have a few ideas so to the mill we go with it!
    Look twice, shoot once.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master





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    Get a diagram of the gun.

    The part that pulls the shell from the chamber is called the extractor.

    The part that makes the extracted hull eject from the action is called the ejector.

    Posts here are calling 2 problems the same, they are not.

    Replace the part needed as in if it does not pull the hull from the chamber it is the extractor 's fault or it's spring replace both.

    If it does not come out of the gun after extracting it is the ejector, replace it.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    That 'coat hanger piece of wire' may be the ejector.
    Is there a slot in the left side of the bolt face for that wire/wire end to ride in?
    If so the wire may just be bent away from the bolt and the head of the shell not hitting the tip of that wire upon extraction.
    Or the wire shortened up for some reason by someone.

    I'm just guessing of course, but that is the same type of set up that the MArlin M80 series clip fed .22 bolt action rifles use for an ejector.
    The wire in those is screwed to the bottom of the action and pokes upward and rides on the bottom left side of the bolt face.
    If those get bent downward a little, the case head misses them on extraction and no ejection results.


    Only other thing I can think of is if it has a detachable box magazine,,sometimes the ejector itself is nothing more than a small upward facing tab as part of the left sidewall of the magazinebox itself.
    That can get bent out of the way,,worn or sometimes even removed by an unknowing owner thinking he/she is doing it a favor by removing an obstacle to the bolts free movement.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    . Work the bolt like it owes you money, and see if ejection is improved. .
    Amazingly accurate description of how some older models work. Also known as "Work it like you mean it."

    A buddy of mine once told me he had a surplus gun that wouldn't fire. We met at the range. I pulled the trigger gun went off. Put a NICE group downrange. He got on it and after a minute said "I won't fire... what did you do?" I picked it up and put two more in the target. It boiled down to he had gotten use to a 1.25 lb trigger pull on a modern target rifle. He simply wouldn't squeeze the trigger on that old surplus gun enough to make it work.

    A couple years went by and he had him a SKS. According to him it "would jam the first round every time out of the magazine". Met him at the range. I don't know how many times I had to yell "STOP RIDING THE BOLT" over him and other shooters before I finally made him stop completely and let me explain to him, and show him, that you pull the bolt back, YOU LET IT GO. You DON'T hold onto it and ease it forward like it's going to run off. He was fowling the first round out of the fixed mag a good 80% of the time because he didn't like the bolt "slamming shut" as he was afraid it would damage the gun. Gun was like brand new, and it was just still too tight (per military standards) to allow that kinda ooh-boo...

    Took a few years, but he's got it all down now.

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  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy TRX's Avatar
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    Shotgun extractors are typically a hook and a pusher. The hook does the extracting, the the "pusher", which looks like a broken hook, is on the other side. Since shotgun shells and their rims vary a lot in size, the pusher makes sure the rim gets pushed under the hook.

    Your bolt would probably have one of two types of extractor. One is separate hooks and pushers that are recessed into slots in the bolt, pivoting on small pins, with tiny springs to push them toward the center of the bolt.

    The other kind is a formed sheet metal clip, much like the one on some ball-point pens, that has the hook and pusher integral with the clip that goes around the body. The clip just snaps around the front of the bolt; no separate springs or pins are needed.

    Either way, make sure the extractor is *there* to start with. Then make sure there's a hook on the extractor; it'll be on the ejection port side; the right unless it's a left-handed gun. Sometimes the hood gets buggered or broken off, and though it'll snap over the rim when the bolt is closed, it'll snap right back off without pulling the shell out.

  14. #14
    PAPERPATCH MASTER


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    Quite a few years back I witnessed what would have to be the most dim witted counter person I`ve ever seen. It was at Williams Gun Sight retail store where a counter guy was assembling bolt action Marlins from their box. He was pushing and slapping the stock then the reciever to get them together. I walked over and casually said that they would go together easier if the trigger guard and magazine weren`t on the reciever already!Robert

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    I did find one reference that stated the Wards Westernfield 16M was the Mossberg Model 85.
    The Mossberg 85 was made from the mid 30's to WW2.

    Numrichs Xref doesn't come up with that match. But it does place the Wards Westernfield Models 16 and 16A as the same as the Mossberg Mod 85. No listing for a Model 16M.
    So I guess that's something to go by. Small cosmetic changes in the guns may have lead to another model designation I'd guess.

    Looking up in Numrichs parts lists I find a Mossberg Model 85B and 85D with schematics.
    Neither of the drawings are very clear and are most likely the same picture anyway.

    Right off the bat in the 85B parts listing Numrich offers up 3 or 4 what looks like semi auto pistol parts and from what I don't know. (It is Numrich we're dealing with here..)
    Then the 85B parts,,but I don't see that left side mounted wire the OP mentions nor do I see it in the SuperMan X-Ray vision type visual graphic supplied as a parts diagram. Maybe it's on the non-listed 85A if they ever made one?.
    Anyway,,the 'ejector' is there along with it's attachment screw plainly shown in the parts listing.
    I can say it's the same style that was used later on the Model 385 bolt action shotguns. I'm familiar with those.
    It screws into the bottom of the recv'r and the arm projects up into the port to hit the rim of the case as it's pull back by the bolt head.

    The Mod 85D parts are w/o the mystery semiauto pistol parts to start out with. But contain pretty much the same items as the 85B list. Still no mystery wire arm attachment on the left side of the recv'r.
    I'm thinking now it may be the magazine cartridge cut-off. A few early bolt shotguns had them. Stevens used that IIRC.

    Maybe it's not the Mossberg 85 series at all. The OP should be able to sort that out looking at the construction of the bolt & parts, mag and stock, ect.

    Hope this helps..

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