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Thread: Powder storage discussion and question???

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Old refrigerators and chest freezers to store powder and primers.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. H.L. Mencken

  2. #22
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    Powder storage discussion and question???

    Your main concern w/ a proper storage container is in the event of a fire. And by that I mean the insurance investigation afterwards. While probably not likely I can see them denying a claim because you didnít store youíre powder/primers in containers that met local code. Itís better to stay w/in the law when youíre talking about a huge investment like your home. Having a claim denied would ruin almost everyone.

    Thereís a reason they specify a wooden container. The safe posted above potentially becomes a bomb in the event of a fire. Once the seals swell that safe can become pressurized. W/ a wooden container thereís no chance for pressure to build. Same goes for an old refrigerator/freezer. The doors can easily open on them unlike a safe. And I wonít get into ďfireĒ safes and their lack of a testing standard. If itís an actual safe, not a RSC, thatís meant for documents then it has a true fire rating and will keep interior temps below a particular temp.

  3. #23
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    I built a cabinet that is in my basement. Three shelves and deep enough to put two 1 pound containers front to back. And with a pair of doors that I have a clasp on I can lock if I needed to.
    Can store about what you have. It is in same location as my reloading equipment. The GOOD thing about this is that I can take out that ONE container I'm using today and SHUT the rest up in the cabinet.
    Zero way to mix up powder if you have only ONE outside the box. Way better in my opinion than open on a shelf. BTW, I used half inch MDF. It smoulders in a fire, won't hardly keep a fire going so I would expect it to withstand a bit of fire before allowing the powder to burn. Build or buy something and keep it closed up.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy RED BEAR's Avatar
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    powder and primers should not be stored in the same location. and i can see an insurance investigator denying for anything they could come up with. i dealt with a couple good ones and a few but heads. and you can't request a good one.

  5. #25
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    National fire code (written by insurance co) regarding powder, haven't seen any restriction on amount for residences. There are restrictions on distance between powder, ammo and adjacent structures. Fire dept. are concerned about ammo going off - hear discharge and they will let it burn. F.D. can determine source of fire pretty easy, powder is just another flammable product. Insurance co. inspection can note that powder increased the amount of damage. There is NO statement in any home insurance doc. that I get where powder is even mentioned. Insurance co can say the same thing about flammable gas, oil, etc stored in home. Insurance is a **** shoot anyway, they will want to only pay for actual damage, if it ain't burnt, no pay, then a lump sum for smoke damage - but not for F.D. water damage.
    Whatever!

  6. #26
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    Powder storage discussion and question???

    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    National fire code (written by insurance co) regarding powder, haven't seen any restriction on amount for residences. There are restrictions on distance between powder, ammo and adjacent structures. Fire dept. are concerned about ammo going off - hear discharge and they will let it burn. F.D. can determine source of fire pretty easy, powder is just another flammable product. Insurance co. inspection can note that powder increased the amount of damage. There is NO statement in any home insurance doc. that I get where powder is even mentioned. Insurance co can say the same thing about flammable gas, oil, etc stored in home. Insurance is a **** shoot anyway, they will want to only pay for actual damage, if it ain't burnt, no pay, then a lump sum for smoke damage - but not for F.D. water damage.
    NFPA is what SAAMI references. That code is not written by insurance companies so Iím not sure where you got that. IBC specifically references NFPA so if the township you live in uses IBC then you fall under NFPA unless they specifically state their own limits.

    The problem w/ NFPA is that you have to pay to view it. I have their books going back many years because I needed to know the code for my profession. NFPA isnít perfect but itís designed to protect you. It does mention storage of items like gasoline and solvents but everyone ignores this.

    Firefighters are more concerned w/ propane tanks, gas cans and other flammable liquids. But theyíre in every house unlike powder and primers.

    Here are some SAAMI links:
    https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...ess-Powder.pdf

    https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...oc-Primers.pdf

    Black powder is technically an explosive but itís exempt from regulation per the ATF. It does have its own set of storage requirements. One of the reasons few companies sell it anymore is because of the magazine requirements.

    https://www.atf.gov/explosives/qa/bl...xplosives-laws
    Last edited by dragon813gt; 09-27-2018 at 09:50 PM.

  7. #27
    (1) Maintain a consistent temperature
    (2) Don't tell the insurance company

  8. #28
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    For the record - the door is never dogged over and locked - if it goes up it will simply push the door open and burn,,,

  9. #29
    Boolit Master RogerDat's Avatar
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    Wood of 1 inch thick (actual) has a known ability to withstand fire and insulates the contents from external heat. By the time interior temp of 1' thick wood box hits ignition temperature of the powder the box is structurally incapable of holding pressure and the plastic powder bottles will have likewise melted and not build up pressure. Refrigerator that does not latch serves same function. Fridge is insulated and with non-latching door would be unable to become pressurized by burning powder.

    See the common theme. Protect the contents from heat for decent amount of time, not become pressurized by burning powder so it explodes. One note on the lids of home built wood powder magazine if it has a drop lid don't pile stuff on top. Better for the top to easily "pop" open if the powder inside ignites.

    I keep primers in an old file cabinet drawer because they can chain fire and become projectiles. This in not anywhere near any powder. I do have some boxes of primers in current use on the shelf behind the bench. I also do not keep all my powder in one location. A few cans handy on top shelf behind bench, some in wood box. Some 8# jugs on a shelf away from the rest. I really need a second wood box. I keep it under 50# but if I didn't consider that sufficient (not going to say anyone would be wrong to stock what they can while they can) I would be putting it in insulated containers to move some of it to a shed or other out building to keep the weight in my residence down. Insurance company wants to not cover a shed for too much powder, assuming they can prove such a situation existed I would rather it be a shed than the house they refuse to pay for.

    My neighbor was just told he had to remove his wood furnace from his pole barn and add a fence up the side of his above ground pool to a certain height above the sides, not doing either of these would get his insurance coverage canceled. Best play those cards close to the vest I guess.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baja_Traveler View Post
    For the record - the door is never dogged over and locked - if it goes up it will simply push the door open and burn,,,
    Apologies for my incorrect assumption.

  11. #31
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    Smokeless Powder in it's factory container with the lid closed is safe. I lost almost 40 pounds of powder to a wildfire that got my home. 16 pounds of AA#9 in 2 jugs in the factory cardboard container burned in a shed next to a box of new steel electrical boxes, the elect boxes were left stacked 6 high, no trace the powder was ever there much less an explosion. There was no evidence of any of the other powder either like hot spots or things out of place. 6-700 rounds of 44 mag ammo cooked off in the back of my car. Not so much as a small ding in the metal.

    There was no powder in the house but the flour, sugar, rice and beans were hot enough to melt the refrigerator down to the height of the stove.

    I think government types sit around and IMAGINE what could happen whether there is scientific evidence or not. And you get THIS!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  12. #32
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    Thatís the wrong placard for smokeless powder. 1.4C is for model rocket motors. Smokeless is 1.3C, with C designating propellant. Regardless thatís the UN classification system which doesnít matter in the US. Smokeless powder will carry the flammable solid placard, not an explosive one.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    That’s the wrong placard for smokeless powder. 1.4C is for model rocket motors. Smokeless is 1.3C, with C designating propellant. Regardless that’s the UN classification system which doesn’t matter in the US. Smokeless powder will carry the flammable solid placard, not an explosive one.
    You are probably correct in theory but that box contained a jug of 2400 in my order from PV last month which never left the US. It concerns me that people who have no clue are making up their own rules. I had a building inspector insist I put a 10ga ground wire between the box and door of an UL Listed device on a 20 amp service. I tried to argue but since he was the law I put the wire in. People who are wrong will often defend their position with more energy than if it was the truth. WUWT
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check