Shooting some old-timers 41 Swiss

[Tackleberry41]

I bought a hornady 8mm lebel. Fits just the way its supposed to. One that comes w Lee dies is for the 348 case.

[upnorthwis]

WOW!!! I emailed Lee last night about this problem and they've already got the right one in the mail (#17) at no charge.

[Nobade]

WOW!!! I emailed Lee last night about this problem and they've already got the right one in the mail (#17) at no charge.

That's nice of them. I had to anneal and recut mine. I hope your Lee dies look somewhat like your chamber. Mine aren't anywhere close, and are worthless to me.

[BrassMagnet]

I got my dies from CH4D. I also got a file trim die and a Dillon rapid trim die.
I have some 8mm Lebel brass to form.
I expect lotsa fun and some great learning from this!

[upnorthwis]

Got the Lebel brass and was going to try for the 1.77 length that supports more of the bullet for reaching out in that tapered neck. Tried to increase the diameter in .030 increments. The Prvi Partizan brass split on the second pass. Might have to go with shorter length and see how it works. Will only be single loaded. Also had to bore out the Forster collet holder to get the .626 rim through it. We're having fun now.

[Tackleberry41]

Trimming is a real problem for the parent case, not found anything that will hold them. I ended up modifying an old RCBS shell plate and even the head on the trimmer as it would not fit between the 2 pins. Once done trimming is easy.

I cut mine long, forming they tend to come out wavy, trimming so they are even may end up short. I just zip off a section with a dremmel tool.

You must not be annealing, I cut them with the dremmel, anneal, then expand the neck and finally size and trim. Not lost a single case since I started expanding them in steps.

[upnorthwis]

It was brand new brass and only tried one piece so far. Will try annealing between steps and maybe make more expanders. Local hardware store has 7/16-14 bolts in stock that fit in the Lyman Universal die. Note: Even the hole in the universal die is not large enough to get the entire Lebel brass all the way in. Have to make the expander plenty long.

[Tackleberry41]

I do not anneal but once. A selection of those NOE expanders is the thing to have. No modifying, just drop one in, expand it some, then the next step, until its up to 44 cal. They go thru the sizing die real easy then.

[upnorthwis]

Ahhh! Annealing success. Did last pass with .375 then finished by fireforming with Blue Dot and compressed Malt-O-Meal. The rough length is 1.840". So while I am doing more re-sizing, maybe someone can tell me: How long is too long? I suppose if I seat a boolit and can't chamber it I would have to do some trimming. Will be using Lee C430-310RF most likely sized to .431. Also, is a GC going to be any advantage at the 1000/1100 paper punching fps I'm planning on?

[Jniedbalski]

Take a dermal tool and open up the shell holder . I did this for my Nagant pistole dies

[Nobade]

Since the neck is tapered, the length is determined by the bullet diameter. Figure out what size bullet you need and cut the case so it will accept that size. Oh, for cutting to length I used a machinable collet and cut it to hold the rim. Live center in the case mouth, and a .030" thinbit parting tool to cut the case. Then fireformed, with red dot and cream o wheat. Didn't lose any cases, and it's super fast once set up.

[Tackleberry41]

Not sure the case can be to long. Mine are 5mm longer than spec, still chamber. My goal was to seat the bullet long enough to feed from the magazine.

[upnorthwis]

I couldn't leave well enough alone. Everything was going great with fire-forming except when trying to extract brass. Would hang up on the firing pin and had to use an Allen wrench to pull it out. Noticed that the firing pin was sticking out about a .120 even though I had it ground to .050 with the striker all the way forward. So I ground some more off making it sort of an inertia pin. Sure enough, wouldn't fire. Lucky there are five of them in the RCBS pack. Made another one plenty long and it pierced the primer. Shortened it and pierced another primer. Finally got it to fire again (original length) but was back to the extraction problem. Solved it with more rounding of pin. I may have had this rifle apart more times today than in the last 100 years but the final result was an improvement.

[Traffer]

You folks realize that by discussing all this you are driving up the price of these rifles? That's OK with me. I want to see them saved and made into good shooters. Preserving a great part of history. I missed my chance to get a good deal on one since I only got back into shooting in 2016. I hear not long ago you could get one for under $100...I missed the good old days.

[Tackleberry41]

I paid $100 for mine recently. Consignment dropped off at the local shop, waited for me to come in to even know what it was. Guess like most goggled and saw '$550' on gunbroker. Yea plenty for sale at such a price, nobody buying. Converting it ruins its collectors value, I am not a collector of wall hangers. Told the guy $100, high as I would go. Buy brass, dies, convert it your into it another $100 easy.

Took a couple weeks, like anybody else wanted it or even knew what it was. Mention making ammo and conversion people lose interest. Shop owner told him, this is the only guy who will want it. So let it collect dust in the closet, or take $100. Shop owner was tickled as can be when I brought it back in after a week and he could put a few rounds thru it.

I did the same RCBS primer pin conversion. Not had any trouble out of it. Maybe you need a lathe to drill the pin hole straight, binds up if crooked? I ground the 2 rimfire pins back, drilled a hole for the decapping pin. Ground it to the right place and that was it.

[upnorthwis]

Finally seated a boolit today. Used a SAECO 240 gr. sized to .429 for starters. Wouldn't chamber. Could see by mark on brass that it was at least .070 too long. Finally fit at 1.700. Might even have to be shorter when I try the Lee C430-310RF sized to .431. Will start with 15 gr. 4198 and take some shots over chrono (if it stops snowing) May also use 5744, 2400, 4895, 4227 and 4759. Then maybe I'll have time to search for the ermine that got in my basement through the firewood window. I'll let him finish off the mouse population first.

Update: This did not work out as well as I thought it would. First problem, 34 degrees F. Set up chrono and start shooting. As each load was going up in one grain increments there should have been an increase in fps. Nope, they went down. I reloaded the shells and this time kept them in my pockets. Had 230 fps increases. Here are some results that may be relevant. Only one shot per reading. That's why the velocities don't go up evenly.
15 gr. BD 240 gr. boolit = 1260 fps
15 4198 240 gr. " = 1105
16 " = 1144
17 " = 1264
18 " = 1270
19 " = 1300
18 gr. 4198 310 gr. = 1137
19 " = 1166
20 " = 1170
17 gr. 4759 310 gr. = 961
18 " = 982
19 " = 1134
20 " = 1140
21 " = 1176

[aap2]

Upnorth: I just formed a bunch of 41 Swiss cases from 8mm Lebel brass; I shoot these in my Swiss vetterli and generally get many reloads out of my well-annealed cases. I use 330 gr boolits from a custom Accurate mould and they drop at .436" and can be sized to fit any Vetterli bore that I have ever encountered. If it helps I can send you a handful of cases and boolits (no charge)...just send me a PM.

[upnorthwis]

I'm going to make a scope mount for my M78. Does the dovetail get taken out from right to left, left to right, or will either direction work?

[Tackleberry41]

You can safely go higher on your load data. I tried I4198, and Reloader 7. More than one source claimed 40-65 data can be used in the 41 swiss.

24gr of 4198 w a NOE 290gr powder coated bullet, OAL 2.140 fit to the rifle, feeds thru the mag. That got me 1351-1403fps, ES 52.35. Cases are still sooty, only partially fireformed. 24.5gr is min data in lyman book, 27.3gr is max.

Tried Re7, 27gr first time, 1355-1482fps, ES 126.9. Then 28gr, for 1556 fps. Still sooty when fired, not completely fireforming. 27gr was min data w 300 gr in Lyman for 40-65, 30gr was max. Finally found a use for the Re7 I bought.

Have the Lee 310 mold, but it makes such garbage compared to the NOE mold. What I use works, feeds, extracts and very accurate.

[upnorthwis]

Well here's my scope mount. A machined block of aluminum fit between the rear sight "ears" and bolted to the M4 tap in sight base. Milled slot holds a Burris TC scope mount for a 2-1/2 power LER pistol scope. I'll start with my lightest loads in case this thing comes unhinged. Did a ballistic calculation and even with the 2.60" scope height, the 25 yd. hits should be nearly the same as at 100. That was calculated with the Lee C430-310RF at 1200 fps. Used BC from another calculator of .384. Also of note, it will drop about 22" at 200. I've also got some ideas about a repeatable/removable rear sight adjusting tool when the irons go back on. If this rifle is good enough I'll be using it at the CBA Military Nationals this year in Sioux City, IA. One rifle or another, I'll be there.