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Thread: Fire-Forming Ackley case

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Fire-Forming Ackley case

    Hello, I hope someone can give me some advice...I have a .25 Ackley Krag Improved..full length .30-40 Krag case necked to .25 & body blown out to nearly straight with a 40 deg. shoulder. Working up jacketed loads for determining accuracy benchmark gave perfect formed cases using .257 Roberts start loads & 100gr. Speer spitzers. Having cleaned out all copper from bore for cast bullet loads..not wanting to go thru that again..do you think a 100gr. cast gas-check bullet over 18-20.grs. H4227 would form cases? My concern with cornmeal & Bullseye is that sharp 40 deg. shoulder. Thanks a lot!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    If it reaches 20kpsi it should form fine . I haven't worked with 4227 .... 8-12 gr of Unique should be safe and do the job but check it against Lyman's manual
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  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    I used COW and I think red dot to form 6mm Ackley with no problem I started small with the powder charge and increased until I got a case formed to about 70 -80 percent . If you do in the back yard you may get a visit from the local authorities that could be a problem.

  4. #4
    If you have a true Ackley Improved you should be abe to shoot normal 30-40 loads and they will form fine. If you do not have a true AI, the 30-40 brass will have excess headspace. You can open up the case mouth to .312-.314 with oversize expander ball. Then partially neck size until the brass just fits your chamber. Load up middle pressure 30-40 load and go shoot. I fireformed 50 brass years ago with COW. Most boring half hour ever. Found out that steel targets, squirrels, and other targets have no idea you are fireforming brass as you blast away. Bang-clang is more rewarding than cleaning COW out of everything.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    As Shaggy pointed out, open up the case mouth, then form a shoulder to headspace on. I do this when forming 303Epps, expand to 8mm then form a shoulder for the Epps cartridge. Perfect form every time.

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Guys, he has a 25 Krag, not original 30/40.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I used 15.0 grs. Red Dot and COW filler to fireform my 257 Ackley improved. I necked the case down to make a false shoulder and fired it. I also annealed the necks to insure they did not crack.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Search my posts here. I posted a tutorial for making the brass - it is a muti-step process or you will ruin cases.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  9. #9

    Typo

    My 25 Ackley krag has a 45 degree shoulder, and I used the bullseye-cow method to form cases once. It worked great, but I had a mess with the cow caking up at the body- shoulder junction, inside the cases. The last batch I made, I used a medium 257 Robert's power charge, and some surplus j-words.
    Last edited by NObamain2012; 03-13-2020 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Typo

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    I found I needed a stepwise process - neck down, anneal shoulder, load and shoot. If I did not anneal the shoulder I got splits there. Once the shoulder was annealed I was fine. If I annealed the neck before I sized it down it collapsed. I sized the neck first in my 7mm die and then in my .25 die.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    If your case volume approximates a .257 Roberts you might use the starting cast bullet loads in a Lyman cast bullet hand book. No one here knows exactly what the volume of your case is so we can only guess.
    If it has a short neck and a sharp shoulder it might have the volume of the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved and you could use that data. A short case would be closer to the volume of the .250/3000 Savage or the .250/3000 Savage Ackley improved.
    EDG

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    The 25 Krag AI has 2 gr. water capacity greater than the 257 Roberts AI and 2 gr. water capacity less than the 25-06. It is right between the two. My old Sierra data book has load information for the 257 Roberts AI and everyone has data for the 25-06.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  13. #13
    Boolit Bub
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    I have several different AI rifles when I fire form I use lotioned toilet paper over a small charge of shotgun or pistol powder. Always size then anneal. You don't have to fill case with TP just enough to hold powder in the bottom of case. Once you get the combo worked out it leaves no residue and a nice shiny bore. and is not position sensitive.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    The 25 Krag is a little different. You are hugely expanding the case and forming the shoulder. That's quite a bit for one shot. Most AI cases are minor changes. This one is much more of a major change.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check