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Thread: Ideal #6 Tool 30-30 W Casting Observations

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Ideal #6 Tool 30-30 W Casting Observations

    For some fun, I just bought a Ideal #6 30-30W reloading tool from a member here for an experiment. It has a removable seating/crimping chamber that is marked either 14 or 1.4 that has an open end. The tool has seen a lot of use, but the mold is in nice shape and the spruce plate fits flush and tight. First observation, boy it’s a heavy chunk of steel and it gets hot fast, so heavy leather gloves are in order. About 20-30 rejects in, it was clearly still not hot enough so into the lead pot it went so the mold and plate edge were immersed. Next bullet was perfect, but after 2 more bullets the bases were shrinking again. After some fiddling what worked was into the pot for 30 sec, cast two nice bullets, back in the pot for 30 seconds, and repeat. I stopped after getting 40 very nice bullets, which appear to be the Ideal 311241. Using wheel weights, they dropped at an average of 147.5 grains, with a band diameter of .3115 to .312. The sizer on the tool is .308, which may or may not work with my Winchester 94 which has a notoriously tight throat and has trouble closing on bullets sized .311, but shoots them well. Now to shoot some rounds through the 94 to get some fire formed brass, and then figure out a basic pan lube that would have been available at the turn of the century (I usually powder coat or use Alox). For what is probably an over 100 year old piece of kit, this tool is pretty impressive. At risk of boring everyone, I’ll update this thread as the experiment continues. Comments by others using this or a similar tool would be appreciated.Attachment 227334Attachment 227335[ATTACH=CONFIG]227336Attachment 227337Attachment 227338Attachment 227339
    Last edited by Jkrem; 09-18-2018 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Added images

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    Boolit Master



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    Not bored at all!
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    How long has Emmerts been around as a lube??
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    Looking forward to the progress!

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    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    You are in no danger of boring me, making me envious; but not boring me.

    I've one of the 30-30 #6 tools; but life has conspired against my, as of yet, getting to use it.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I went back and looked at the picture of the tool you bought and compared it to one I have , and the seating chamber appears a bit shorter than mine. The tapered portion is about .450 in length, and is used to bell the mouth before inserting the bullet. Also my chamber is number 13, also used on 30-30 310 dies, and I can't find any reference to a no. 14 chamber. When I cast bullets with this tool I was very impressed with the bullets, and you are correct, them handles get HOT fast. I'm not sure why your having trouble with the bullet bases, maybe some oil coming out from under the sprue plate screw?

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr-Guy View Post
    I went back and looked at the picture of the tool you bought and compared it to one I have , and the seating chamber appears a bit shorter than mine. The tapered portion is about .450 in length, and is used to bell the mouth before inserting the bullet. Also my chamber is number 13, also used on 30-30 310 dies, and I can't find any reference to a no. 14 chamber.
    Mine, too, are 13 SCs for both 30-30 and 303 S. These in 30-30 were offered with molds for two weights / lengths of the 308241, maybe that 14 SC is for the special order light / short bullet version.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
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    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Oh yea . . . .

    My set of tongs shows finish wear and use but they are still in nice shape. I have cast with it several times - as you found out, a good set of heavy leather gloves and getting it up to heat is the trick - and it does get HOT! IIRC, mine dropped right around .309 and I loaded them up with the tongs - used FL sized range brass. The tongs worked great of seating/crimping. Mine have the boolit sizing hole - pretty much useless IMHO.

    I have loaded up several batches and they shot great out of my Winchester 94 "Ranger" and my old Marlin 336SC "waffle top". I don't load heavy as I mainly "plink" and I have found that Red Dot works the best for me.

    It's fun to use this set of tongs once in a while - but I'll stick to my NOE molds for casting boolits in quantity. I also have a set of steel 32 Win Special tongs (same as 30-30) and 310 dies. I usually like to use those for loading batches of rounds - and they work great too!

    I can see how these old Ideal tong tools would have been put to good use those in their day - they do it all and I can just visualize fellows sitting at a table at night, loading rounds.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Pics of the #14 chamber added.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Landy88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkrem View Post
    Pics of the #14 chamber added.
    With that number and that large opening in the flaring cone your SC is unique and beyond my knowledge, maybe Froggie can help.
    The first purpose of the Second Amendment is too often overlooked, fostering a liberty of mind and action necessary in the people of a free republic.


    “Ironically, the only gun control in 19th century England was the policy forbidding police to have arms while on duty.”
    ~ Don B. Kates, Jr.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Jkrem, I just found a website on Ideal tools that is very interesting. I don't know how to make it a link so you all will have to type it in yourself.
    www.wawyckoff.comm

    Apparently the no 14 chamber is for the 30-30 Marlin tool, which has a flat nose bullet profile, as compared to the 30-30 win and its RN bullet. I think someone drilled through the end to crimp in a longer bullet,maybe a 170 gr jacketed ??

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    What an awesome reference! Now to begin the search for a #13 chamber. This could be a “long” experiment!

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Here is my first range report with my bullets from the 30-30W tool. After finding some bees wax from a local beekeeper, I sized the bullets cast last week with the tool after lubing them with a 50/50 mix by weight of bees wax and Crisco. I full length resized 15 cases and primed them with the tool after belling the case mouths. Bullets were loaded over 14 grains of Alliant 2400, and COAL was 2.52”. I seated and crimped the bullets with a regular die, as I don’t have the correct chamber or a locking ring. Here is the resulting group at 50 yards after running the rear sight elevator on my 94 as high as it would go. It is some semblance of a group, so I’ll work up some more loads with 2400, and maybe 3031 and Unique before sizing bigger. Hours of fun ahead!Attachment 227665Attachment 227666

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    After watching a couple videos on YouTube, I came across this idea to use a Lee case length gage to replace my missing decamping pin. A little fiddling to find the right size drywall anchor, and trial and error on the right depth for the pin, and I was in business! Once I get a 310 tool locking ring, I will experiment with seating and crimping with this #14 chamber. I’m guessing I may never find a #13, but who knows! The experiment continues. Attachment 227969Attachment 227970Attachment 227973Attachment 227972Attachment 227974Attachment 227971

  17. #17
    Boolit Master



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    Once I get a 310 tool locking ring?

    You haven't called yet?

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yessir, order placed. Decapping and lubing is now solved, so experimenting with seating and crimping with the #14 is next. I also have a higher front sight on order.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jkrem View Post
    After watching a couple videos on YouTube, I came across this idea to use a Lee case length gage to replace my missing decamping pin. A little fiddling to find the right size drywall anchor, and trial and error on the right depth for the pin, and I was in business! Once I get a 310 tool locking ring, I will experiment with seating and crimping with this #14 chamber. I’m guessing I may never find a #13, but who knows! The experiment continues. Attachment 227973
    That drywall anchor on the LEE is pure genius. I assume you had to cut the recapping pin to make the correct length to work in the tongs?
    I have a few of these tools and always, the decaping pin is gone. No surprise really. The powder scoop is even harder to find with them.
    I am not expert on them either, but I have never seen the seating and flaring end drilled out. Tom Rowe has a great two book set on period hand loading tools. I don't have that $$$ yet ! Chamberlain's book may, I have not looked but his book may not have the detail on every variation.
    For fun here is a look at an adjustable not open on a 45-70 tool.Click image for larger version. 

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    I am good with hot hands and with leather welding gloves on, I am able to cast 50 or so bullets at a session. That is likely more than the early users would when a 45-70 was a tool. Short on funds and careful with ammo.
    Chill Wills

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    No need to cut the Lee case gage in my case, I just backed out the adjustable chamber until everything worked!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check