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Thread: Fireforming - Expired Flavored Malt o Meal instead of COW?

  1. #1
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    Fireforming - Expired Flavored Malt o Meal instead of COW?

    I have some old (probably expired) Malt o Meal that I just found, sorting through stuff; I'd bought fresh COW in case that's needed, but IDK, I am thinking that maybe the MoM should do the job? In past I've used a powder charge, then almost case full of COW, then a small over COW wad to keep it retained, used to use plastic but I'd think paper would do it. I cannot think there'd be a real problem with the MoM, unless anyone has experienced bad results with that? (I'd load and fire same day probably for minimal powder/MoM interaction.)

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    What are you trying to fireform? Info would be helpful. Are you trying to fireform to your chamber or what?

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    Yes - 7mm TCU from 5.56x45, and 7-30 Waters from 30-30. Could load regular loads but no good target setup where I'll likely be to fire form them all.

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    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post
    Yes - 7mm TCU from 5.56x45, and 7-30 Waters from 30-30. Could load regular loads but no good target setup where I'll likely be to fire form them all.
    It really doesn't matter much what sort of media is used as long as it isn't flammable and fills the case cheaply and completely. The flavoured part would concern me with the flavouring being sugar or something of the like - which would of course create a cleaning issue. An aside - how are you fireforming a 30-30 into a 7-30? I don't have a ton of experience with the COW method, using it to create 35-30/30 from 30/30 brass, and 30-03 from 270 brass - both starting with a small-for-chamber / neck case, and using the COW method to enlarge it to fit the chamber (much like your creation of your 7mm TCU).
    Thank you.

    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Coffee grounds.

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    cwtebay - I have run the 30-30 through a 7-30 size die, the brass is necked down to 7mm now but the shoulder isn't blown out, same as the 7mm TCU really, the fire forming "just" blows the shoulder out to fully form the cases. I set the die for this pass such that you have to firmly snap the action closed to get it to seat home. Made 300 cases up, should last me some time! (I like having a lot of cases all the same so I don't have to reload weekly or such.) Don't know if it'll quite be a lifetime supply, but more than a week

    17nut - I'd never seen those used. Interesting idea! Thanks.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post
    cwtebay - I have run the 30-30 through a 7-30 size die, the brass is necked down to 7mm now but the shoulder isn't blown out, same as the 7mm TCU really, the fire forming "just" blows the shoulder out to fully form the cases. I set the die for this pass such that you have to firmly snap the action closed to get it to seat home. Made 300 cases up, should last me some time! (I like having a lot of cases all the same so I don't have to reload weekly or such.) Don't know if it'll quite be a lifetime supply, but more than a week

    17nut - I'd never seen those used. Interesting idea! Thanks.
    Ahhh.. Thank you for setting me straight!!


    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Mr_S, As you can see above, many things can be used as a case filler, but please make sure the one you choose doesn't form a solid plug when compressed.
    Last edited by Maven; 09-26-2018 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    Mr_S, As you can see above, many things can be used as a case filler, but please make sure the one you close doesn't form a solid plug when compressed.
    And I'd be concerned that expresso grounds would do exactly that.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  10. #10
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    Definitely good points, COW isn't THAT expensive, maybe paranoia is wiser than experimentation here LOL

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    Boolit Bub
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    I usually don't load my 7/30 waters to Max loads to same case life so when I load new formed brass i just fire fore with my normal load. I don't have any experience with the 7mm tcu but I read a post on another forum where a guy shot a 40 x 40 score in silhouette with fire forming loads. I have only tried the cow method once 30/30 to 38-55 and I didn't have any luck wasted 40 good cases and had to wait for weeks until somebody had 38-55's in stock.

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    I used COW before for the first set (which apparently a family member stole,weirdly.) It works but you have to use ENOUGH powder that it forms the cases fully. I'll be doing 7-30 Waters and 7mm TCU and 300 of each (may go for 500 Waters if they won't last so long) so that's going to be a serious amount of COW LOL - I need to check volume and make sure I have enough.

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    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylongrifle32 View Post
    I usually don't load my 7/30 waters to Max loads to same case life so when I load new formed brass i just fire fore with my normal load. I don't have any experience with the 7mm tcu but I read a post on another forum where a guy shot a 40 x 40 score in silhouette with fire forming loads. I have only tried the cow method once 30/30 to 38-55 and I didn't have any luck wasted 40 good cases and had to wait for weeks until somebody had 38-55's in stock.
    Thread drift alert!

    On 30-30 to 38-55, I used (I think) 10 grains unique, on top of the powder a quarter square of toilet paper. On top of the to I put screenings from under a grain dryer(any non-compacting filler works well, not complete thread drift!!) tamped down with a pencil, then another quarter square of toilet paper on top.

    The important point is to hold the rifle vertical when firing. I don't have a clue why, but fireforming while horizontal gets ugly mis-shapen cases. Same load fired vertically gave perfect results.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy gnostic's Avatar
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    This is probably all wrong, but I've been loading a fairly standard starting load and seat the bullet into the lands. I've done it this way hundreds of times, with 25-06, 243 Win, 7.65 Arg, 221 Fireball and 6.5 Rem Mag and haven't had any reason to think, it's not a good thing to do. I run the case through a trim die and neck ream, load them up and it's all good...

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yeah, but when you are forming 8x57 to 9.3x57 putting an 8mm bullet in the case doesn't do much!
    Wayne the Shrink

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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Vertical is better for this reason the case can center up in the chamber better. When horizontal the smaller case is laying in the bottom of the chamber and may not center as well. As to coffee grounds I would be concerned with the moisture content and possible abrasiveness of them. Cream of wheat kapock is the normal for this. I have seen it done with just the toilet paper wad also. I don't believe it as much the filler as the pressure forming the case up. If using the toilet paper wads also watch where you fire them for dry grass combustables in the area.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Littlewolf's Avatar
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    i've fire formed 9.3x74r into 410 3" shotshells a thumbfull of napkin over the powder fill the rest with cornmeal, another thumbfull of napkin over the cornmeal. fire straight up for best results, i concure with the horizontal is bad from experience. also i concure with any non-flamable powdery material that doesnt form a solid when heated.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Vertical is better for this reason the case can center up in the chamber better. When horizontal the smaller case is laying in the bottom of the chamber and may not center as well. As to coffee grounds I would be concerned with the moisture content and possible abrasiveness of them. Cream of wheat kapock is the normal for this. I have seen it done with just the toilet paper wad also. I don't believe it as much the filler as the pressure forming the case up. If using the toilet paper wads also watch where you fire them for dry grass combustables in the area.
    And clean it up before the wife gets home, last time I did 30-30 to 38-55 my back yard looked like an explosion at a confetti factory

  19. #19
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    LOL! Yeah, SWMBO needs to be obeyed, if you have one.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub
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    It might be a good idea to check the sodium (salt) content of the Malt o meal, other than this it should work. I usually fire form my 41 Swiss with COW tamped down tight with a pencil then a drop of Elmer's glue on top to hold everything in place.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check