Alloy for 2100 fps deer load?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I'm working up a hunting load for my 358 Winchester. I was aiming for 2000 fps so I could maintain a point blank hold on the field I hunt. I cast some Lee 200s out of 50/50/2, COWW/SOWW/Tin. It looks like the Reloder 7 I'm using is going to settle in around 2100 fps (lighter loads show high spreads). After reading Goodsteel's thread, I'm wondering if I'm pushing the boolit too fast. Some shots are as short as 5 yards, but a 200 yard shot could present itself.

[white eagle]

I use 16-1 powder coated @ over 2100 fps in my 358
but my boolit weighs more on the line of 260 gr
also use aa2021
might be the smaller boolit can't handle the speed
not sure what Goodsteel did

[INTRLOPER]

I'm working up a hunting load for my 358 Winchester. I was aiming for 2000 fps so I could maintain a point blank hold on the field I hunt. I cast some Lee 200s out of 50/50/2, COWW/SOWW/Tin. It looks like the Reloder 7 I'm using is going to settle in around 2100 fps (lighter loads show high spreads). After reading Goodsteel's thread, I'm wondering if I'm pushing the boolit too fast. Some shots are as short as 5 yards, but a 200 yard shot could present itself.

I see no problems with the alloy and speeds you are running. Been a big ol pile of deer killed with similar bullets at them ballistics and of similar alloy going through the ribs. If you are concerned, line up eight or nine water filled milk jugs and shoot into them. Remember water is about 5X harder on a bullet that that moist sponge inside a deer is. I predict you will like what you see.

[Rcmaveric]

I use half range scrap lead to half coww + 2% pewter. Works very well for me. My twist rates of my guns have been my limiting factor on velocity.

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[Silvercreek Farmer]

I use 16-1 powder coated @ over 2100 fps in my 358
but my boolit weighs more on the line of 260 gr
also use aa2021
might be the smaller boolit can't handle the speed
not sure what Goodsteel did

The picture is gone, but the thread is a sticky. He blew up the lower neck of a small doe with a 2050fps 358 Winchester load, pushing a pure COWW boolit. I'm hoping the added tin will help mine hold together a bit better than his did.

[INTRLOPER]

I use half range scrap lead to half coww + 2% pewter. Works very well for me. My twist rates of my guns have been my limiting factor on velocity.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I find alloy composition and ultimate strength to be the limiting factor far more often than twist rate. Changing alloy makeup is far easier and far cheaper to change than twist rate, so that is a good thing, I guess. There was a lot of info in them copper enhancement threads. Too bad a lot of it was lost when the authors of them threads took their toys and went home. Sure am glad I paid attention and saved a few things before the mass editing to them threads.

[White Oak]

I have killed deer using 358win and 356win With RCBS 35-200-FN and COWW, COWW+ 2%, and 50/50+2%. The 50/50+2% performed the best.
The other two killed just as dead, but the bullets did not hold together. The COWW has had multiple small exit holes.
This is a typical exit with the 50/50+2% (the dachshund is my son’s blood dog in training)

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I have killed deer using 358win and 356win With RCBS 35-200-FN and COWW, COWW+ 2%, and 50/50+2%. The 50/50+2% performed the best.
The other two killed just as dead, but the bullets did not hold together. The COWW has had multiple small exit holes.
This is a typical exit with the 50/50+2% (the dachshund is my son’s blood dog in training)

Thanks for the pic! Any chance you have one with the hide off?

[Tripplebeards]

The picture is gone, but the thread is a sticky. He blew up the lower neck of a small doe with a 2050fps 358 Winchester load, pushing a pure COWW boolit. I'm hoping the added tin will help mine hold together a bit better than his did.

Yeah, I remember the thread and the pic did disappear for some reason. I remember he used pure and it looked like a bomb hit it.lol I’m going to try 50/50 on my new 200 grain HP group buy mold around the same speed out of my whelen.

I’m also going to try a 7.5 Bh 265 grain 44 mag HP around 1700 FPS this year on deer and see what happens.

[izzyjoe]

You could give him a shout over at the Goodsteel site, he would be more than happy to tell you all about, he's a good guy to talk to! I don't know why he left this site?

[Larry Gibson]

I use COWW + 2% tin then mix 50/50 with lead cast in the RCBS 35-200-FN and loaded to 2150 fps in my M91 Argentine rebarreled to 35 Remington. After loading I also HP the bullets. I load them over 4895. The load is very accurate to 200 yards which is my own max range with that rifle given the iron sights. Second picture shows 2 five shot groups (top target) which I adjusted for zero. Then added 3 moa and shot bottom target at 200 yards. I clean the barrel every 8 - 10 shots with that alloy to maintain that level of accuracy as the softer alloy does begin to foul after that many shots. With the same bullets cast of COWW + 2% tin the load can be shot all day w/o cleaning and accuracy remains constant. Distance of shot on that buck was a tudge over 90 yards. I use 2500+ lube now as Javelina is no longer available and Hornady GCs. With a scope I would stretch it to 250 yards.

Pictures;

Attachment 239107Attachment 239108Attachment 239109Attachment 239110

[Larry Gibson]

Pictures of the bullet holes inside and out on the buck; entrance outside, entrance inside, exit inside

Attachment 239113Attachment 239114[ATTACH=CONFIG]239112[/ATTACH

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks, Larry! How far did he run?

[Larry Gibson]

He staggered 15 - 20 yards and went down.

[Tripplebeards]

Larry, I bet if you powder coated those bad boys they wouldn’t lead. Reminds me I have to find a stock to my 1891 Argentine. Looks a twin to yours with a Williams peep. I noticed a crack in the action area the other day. Bummer


Did you get in on the group buy of the GC 200 grain hp? Got mine last week and need to cast some up. Don’t know what HP to try yet. Too many options.

[Norske]

The Lee reloading manual 2nd Edition has an excellent section on bullet hardness and peak pressure (to slug up the bullet base). It promotes their hardness tester, but other than the product plug, it's very informative.

[popper]

IIRC Goodsteel used a Cu enhanced cruise missile that blew up in the deer. He didn't like it. Not sure I agree with his analysis.

[Blammer]

I shoot my WQWW 200gr at about 2500 fps out of my whelen, no exploding bullet here.

Shot one pig at 160 yds or so good penetration, no frags, shot an 8pt buck at 10 yds, no grenade either.

so to answer the OP question. I would water drop your bullets and give them a try at 2100 fps, should be good to go.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I bet if you powder coated those bad boys they wouldn’t lead. Reminds me I have to find a stock to my 1891 Argentine. Looks a twin to yours with a Williams peep. I noticed a crack in the action area the other day. Bummer


Did you get in on the group buy of the GC 200 grain hp? Got mine last week and need to cast some up. Don’t know what HP to try yet. Too many options.

I haven't gotten into PC yet. I have shot numerous PC'd bullets sent to me though. So far I've no need to as regular lubed bullets work well, it ain't broke so I don't fix it.

I normally cast the 35-200-FNs out of COWW + 2% tin for regular shooting as I do with the .30s, 31s.8mm's and 375s. I only cast the softer bullets for hunting. I've a HP 311041 that suffices in the .30s and a couple .31s. I've also a 323471 HP which is used in the 8mm's. The others I HP the bullets after loading with the Forster HP tool since I only use a few of them when hunting.

I didn't get the group buy as the RCBS 2 cavity 35-200-FN mould produces plenty of bullet for the 35 Rem. I actually shoot a lot more Lee 356-120-TCs over 5 gr Bullseye in the 35 Rem Argie than anything else...

[popper]

As Larry points out you can use softer alloy for hunting but fouling accumulates - no big deal for a few shots. Do note that at a given psi, the FORCE on the larger cal is greater or to reverse it, for a given fps (force) larger cal can use a softer alloy. I am not a deer hunter but did some experiments on a pig carcass. 3 shots to top of head, no exit hole (misery shots). 40SW 165gr hard TC. I've shot that into a rock pile and recovered a cylinder with 98% retention. Then one to the gut with 1% Sb, tad of Cu and Zn. BLL coated GC 185gr. 16gr 2400 in 30/30 (RD style). 30 cal in, 45 out. BLL doesn't seem to work for me with HV PB. Same load to the shoulder - no exit. Shot at the carcass from a couple feet away, into the ground. Never found the pass through, assume it bounced back in or was buried in the soft dirt. I have no use for HP but recommend going as soft as alloy will allow accuracy. If I want 'expansion' I'd go with Cu solids that have the 3 expanding legs that cut like a broadhead.