Rifled Pump Shotgun... Advice?

[megasupermagnum]

There is another option. Benelli Super Nova. Chamber is 3", not 2-3/4".
https://www.benelliusa.com/slug-guns

I've had a Benelli nova since just a couple years after they came out, and own a rifled slug barrel made by the older Ithaca company. It's a fine shotgun, but not one I would recommend as a slug gun. The biggest reason is Benelli barrels are expensive beyond any reason, think $400+, don't have much of a used market, and Longbow is in Canada.

I never could run my Nova like I could a 500, probably from the long 3 1/2" stroke. It is tough as nails though, same as any other quality pump action. I haven't shot the slug barrel in some time, my Nova has been my main waterfowl gun for 15 years or better now, and I can't remember ever having a problem.

[jmort]

Al my 870s have metal trigger guards. Extractor or ejector?

Which is exactly the opposite of what AIP Tactical says is best. They are way beyond anyone else's paygrade with 870s, so who are we to believe you, or J.D. McGuire???
I will go with the best opinion.
Why not stop bashing the 500??? It is as fine a pump action as there is. We all have our favorites.

[texasnative46]

longbow,

IF you can find one, buy a 1960-70s era Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer as it is the REAL DEAL.

I issued myself one OCONUS (as I'm not a fan of "the Mattel Special", aka: the M16). = In years of jungle use, it never failed me even once, feeding buckshot & slugs acceptably well, despite mud/dirt/sand/saltwater & long/wet weeks W/O being thoroughly cleaned.

The team also had access to Polish & Czech made AKs & those worked well, too.

yours, tex

[longbow]

Okay then lots of responses and info to digest.

Also, I wasn't clear enough in my post. My aim (no pun intended) is a knock around gun with bear protection in mind. The reason I mostly mention Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 (though as pointed out with regards to 3 1/2" ~ 535) is that there are some good deals on 2 or 3 barrel combo's. The Remingtons tend to come as a 2 barrel set and the Mossbergs as 3 barrel sets.

And yes, I neglected to say 12 ga. That's a given isn't it? Except lately I've been thinking a 10 ga. might be even better especially with 000 buck option! But then that would be smoothbore.

I tend to lean towards Remington 870 for the reasons mentioned ~ they've been around the block and I like steel receivers. However, I am open to new things and the Mossbergs are also a well proven gun.

The 3 1/2" question was in regards to accuracy and versatility. I have no intention of shooting a steady diet of 3 1/2" full loads. I was thinking 2 3/4" load data with filler wads but that's a lot of filler. The shorter hulls leave a huge jump to rifling so likely a bad choice for accuracy.

As for "plinking" I load my own and cast my own round balls of 3 sizes and slugs of several designs so no that won't cost me a bunch of money but the shoulder does takes a beating when shooting 50 rounds in an afternoon.

I could go with either in 3" and be quite happy but wondered about any benefit or disadvantage of the 3 1/2". I suspect I'll stick with 3" chamber.

I am thinking rifled for slug only, no buckshot in that barrel.

I already have a Browning BPS with smoothbore slug barrel and several single shots. My son has an old 870 with full length barrel and I have shot other 870's and like them. I have not handled a Mossberg so no experience there.

For the intended purpose I don't really need a rifled gun. Bear issues are usually close up so a hard cast slug or round ball in smoothbore should be plenty accurate and effective for that purpose. I thought rifled because I don't have a rifled gun and this give me a dual purpose purchase and even better if a combo gun. Open sites are preferred (by me) for quick handling and target acquisition if needed. I don't want to have a scope on a gun that can get knocked around and may be used in emergency ~ bear charge! We have an abundance of black bears here though I have never really had serious close encounters but our grizzly population is growing rapidly now and that worries me some.

Hadn't thought of Ithaca so there's another good option though not as readily available or as customizable... though I like plain old wood and steel with simple sights. I could go synthetic stock which is better for a knock around gun but I'm not a black gun guy so don't need infinite mod's and add on capability.

My other though is a decent side by as 2 shots is about as many as a guy would get off I think, in a bear charge situation anyway, and there is no feeding issue to worry about... 2 dependable shots as fast as you need them or as slow as you want. At this point thinking about the Stoeger Supreme with screw in chokes for possible slug accuracy with rifled tubes though regulation would most likely be a serious issue. However, two 12 ga. round balls and cylinder chokes would do for bears at the ranges required.

Then I get back to the shooting/plinking bit and a pump is a far better choice.

Looked at rifled barrels for my BPS but I can buy a gun for what a Browning rifled barrel goes for!

Should have bought an H&R Ultra Slug Hunter when they were available but didn't. That wouldn't suit the bear requirement but I'd still like one!

Lots of things to think about. If I go pump gun I suspect it will be a rifled Remington 870 Express or an older 870 then buy a rifled barrel.

I appreciate the responses (so many responses since yesterday!), comments and info. Keep 'em coming, I will read them all.

Thanks,
Longbow

[EMC45]

Which is exactly the opposite of what AIP Tactical says is best. They are way beyond anyone else's paygrade with 870s, so who are we to believe you, or J.D. McGuire???
I will go with the best opinion.
Why not stop bashing the 500??? It is as fine a pump action as there is. We all have our favorites.

Really not bashing Mossberg that hard. I am not just a fan of them.

Personally you can believe who you like. Whoever you think is best.

As far as Remington and plastic trigger guards are concerned; I think that was a bean counter decision. As Remington continued to make bad business decisions and cheapened their product the plastic trigger guards arrived. I am not a fan of the plastic hence the comment I made about getting an older 870 of the flavor of your choice. My Wingmaster is 1973 and my 2 Expresses are 1994. I have full faith and confidence in them.

[longbow]

Well, here's another question... do Remington 870 Express rifled barrels fit Remington 870 Wingmaster shotguns? I ask because a sporting goods shop in Ontario has a nice looking used Remginton 870 Wingmaster that could be in the running.

And yet another question... are there metal replacements for the plastic 870 parts now used. Call me old fashioned, I like metal with steel being the preference where ever possible.

I am leaning towards the 870 though since both Mossberg and Remington shotguns are used by police and military I am sure they are both good enough for me! Personal preference is the key here I think. I'll go fondle a Mossberg as the LGS... if they have one.

[jmort]

A nice older Wingmaster will have a fit and finish that will be really nice. The express barrels fit. I bought a few barrels off EBay. Also, Mossberg sells Remington barrels. I have a smooth bore slug barrel in addition to all the others.

[leadhead 500]

For each his own, I would choose the 870 with a rifled barrel. I own both the Mossberg and the 870 the Mossberg is a great gun and it will take all of the abuse you can give it. The 870 is built better and is a time tested gun that will last a lifetime, as for accuracy both shoot well with rifled barrels and different slug loads. My rifled 870 has had the barrel shimmed and is topped with a Nikon slug hunter scope and shoots Lyman 525 and full bore slugs great out to a 100 yards. The next thing is a 3.5” slug load is a hand full to shoot, some of the heavy Lyman 525 loads and full bore slug loads in a 3 inch is all you want ahold of from the bench. A good 870 with a 3 inch chamber and a rifled barrel is a good combination and will serve you well for many years

[Hogtamer]

Yes on the barrel fit. No plastic in the old wingmasters to replace.

[toallmy]

Pick the one that feels the best in you hands , swing it around a little and shoulder it some . Don't be afraid to alter the stock to make a shotgun shoulder good for you . I love the new thick soft rubber recoil pads when shooting stout loads but , they might slow you down when you need to get your shotgun up fast . I am biased towards Mossberg manly because they have never let me down so I have never had the need to go elsewhere + a healthy barrel selection . I think you should get both a wingmaster and a 500 .

[Mr_Sheesh]

I like the 8 shot Ithaca 37s for Bear etc., admittedly the chances that you CAN fire more than a few rounds before a bear gets to you aren't high, unless it's knocked down but not yet DRT. Griz are pretty fast. They do make good slug guns in the Ithaca. I'm looking for a field shotgun and thinking of a Nova maybe (Unless I convince myself to do a Belgian Browning A5 again.) Slug gun could be a lot of fun though, maybe with "Pumpkin Ball" loads. You guys are so enabling LOL! But good information Only problem with having more than one shotgun make/model that I've found is, you have to train yourself to use several sets of controls (If you reach for the safety on one shotgun to try to put it in "Fire" mode when the safety's not THERE on the shotgun in your hands, if you're up against a Grizzly for example, you're not going to be happy with your results!) which has me thinking of getting everything the same make and model. Could solve that by working the controls enough when in Alaska to refresh your motor neurons with the current shotgun though, I'd think.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My experience with pump shotguns goes way back and my first one was a Ithaca 37 which I just had refurbished and it came out nice! Good gun for Skeet and upland birds.

I also have 2 M500's one is my tactical gun for 3 gun shoots and the other is a $160 field gun I put Magpul furniture on and is now my HD gun..

Both of these guns got all the internals deburred which took all of 30 minutes each. Both of these guns run flawlessly as long as I don't short stroke them. I don't do that often but I have dropped shells in the port backwards a couple of times in the heat of a stage. PITB to get the back out. This would hold true for any gun.

My Tac gun has been to two Front Sight classes which I have commented on extensively in my posts here.

It has had the barrel "Vang Comped" which resulted in night and day handling betterment. it also has Williams Rifle Sights with a nice Green Fiber Optic front which shows up well in the sunlight or with a weapons mounted light.

The HD gun is going to get Vang Comped soon and it has an XS Tritium Big Dot front sight which is a big green light bulb in the dark.

Mossbergs have several distinct advantages over the Rem 870. 1. The Ejection Port is larger and that eases "port loading" which is a necessary thing in dealing with limited magazine capacity or when changing ammo types. IE: from Buckshot to Slugs. 2. the placement of the Safety is ambi. 3. the cartridge lifter of an 870 has a bump on it which blocks the ejection port if the fore end is moved forward even slightly. This is a big problem! 4. M500's have dual action bars and dual extractors 870's don't. 5. The placement of the slide release behind the trigger guard is far superior to any other gun 6. M500's are less expensive than 870's to begin with.

Aluminum receivers are not a problem at all because all of the parts that matter are made from steel and all the receiver actually does is provide a place for them and keep them together. My Tac gun has nearly 2000 rounds thru it and there is no internal wear whatsoever. It runs very smoothly, and overall is a joy to shoot. The Vang Comped barrel being the biggest contributor to that as it delivers smooth strait line recoil. Magpul furniture also helps as it keys the fore end in place so it can't twist which smooths the stroke..

One last nail in the 870 coffin that I just found out about yesterday.

They are now being made in China!

This comes under the heading of things that just shouldn't be!

As far as a rifled barrel for you Long Bow. Here's a pic of my 3 shot group shot at 50 yards ,,, Offhand !

I don't see a need for a rifled barrel for what you want to do, or what I need to do. This gun is easily capable of making Center Mass hits out to and maybe beyond 100 yards with generic low recoil slugs. I doubt you would see a substantial boost in accuracy with a rifled barrel with the projectiles commercially available or what we make at home.

I'd say what you need is my HD gun with rifle sights. And don't forget sending the barrel down to get it Vang Comped. My buckshot patterns are 7" at 25 yards! That gun with the mods would be worth about $600US. You could probably pick up a used field gun like I did, and cut the barrel off $100 for the furniture and a few little things that just make the gun nicer to shoot.,

Randy.

[megasupermagnum]

Where did you hear the 870 is now made in China? I don't keep close tabs, but this is news to me. I'm sure some parts are outsourced, but just a couple years ago, all the major parts were USA made.

As for accuracy, if you're not familiar with Longbow, he is a slug reloader who is mostly doing this for fun. A smooth bore is perfectly capable of defensive use at 100 yards. A rifled barrel will give you better accuracy with almost any load, including rifled slugs, most of the time anyway, not every time. There are a bunch of full bore slugs out there that can only be accurate from a rifled barrel, as well as round balls. Round balls can be plenty accurate from a smooth bore to about 60-70 yards, but a rifled barrel will see their true potential.

Put a smooth bore gun on a bench, even scoped, and you will be lucky to see consistent 6" groups at 100 yards. The same gun with a rifled barrel, can cut that in half.

[Moleman-]

There is a copy of the 870 that is made in china since the design is no longer under patent protection, but the last 870 I bought last fall was made in the USA. The chinese copies are sold under different names and not by Remington, hawk 982 is one.

[longbow]

Well, I gotta say I am glad I started this thread! You guys are full of good info! I obviously picked the right crowd to ask.

As for the bear protection bit, I agree totally, a rifled barrel is not required and round balls or sold nose hard cast Foster will do fine. However, for the "plinking" fun a rifled barrel would be nice. I have lots of smoothbores to play with though only two with actual slug barrels.

I am about set up to start rifling a choke tube with slow twist rifling as well and if I get that done before I buy the new toy and it works well, the new toy may just be another smoothbore that I will put the rifled choke tube in for longer range "plinking" (artillery fire more like!). If I don't have it finished then I'll likely go rifled just to have one. The jury is still out between Remington and Mossberg. Both should be just fine for my wants and needs. Hmmmm... maybe I should get one of each!

As for Remington being made in China, I haven't heard that but certainly can't dispute it. What I do know is that in Canada we can buy Norinco firearms that are made in China. Not sure if they are available in the States or not but the importer says they cannot ship to the States. Several of their guns are pretty much exact copies of American and European guns. They do make an 870 clone that I am told can use Remington 870 parts. A few people I know that have or have shot Norinco guns say they are quite well put together. I've only seen one M14 clone and it looked good but I haven't had a chance to shoot it. The Chinese can do a good job but their usual approach is cheap and dirty for the mass market.

Hah! I see you posted a pic of the shotgun with the Cutts Compensator on it Randy! Do you still have the Cutts? Those and the old Power-Pac systems used to be pretty common. I like them better than screw in chokes because they are beefier. The screw in chokes I bought to rifle are pretty thin and the solder on barrel adapter is really thin! Actually I have thought about the versatility aspect too and an HD gun like yours with possibly an add on rifled barrel would be nice.

Still thinking. Got to make up my mind soon but still thinking. Got to re-read this thread too! Lots to digest.

Thanks,
Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

Here is a model to keep in mind, Mossberg 500 #52280. I bought one last winter, and it has been great, like all Mossberg 500's. The model #52280 is a turkey model smooth bore 20", threaded for chokes, and comes with a set of crappy sights. I had a set of Williams vent rib sights that fit right on, and they have been on since the day I bought it. I'm sure the original sights would work, but they only had three windage settings, and no elevation adjustment. It's a camo model, but if you can get past that, it is a great smooth bore slug gun, and you could use it with your custom rifled choke. Take the sights off, and you have a decent small game and upland gun. Of course you can put any other barrel you want on it too.

I'm sure there is an equivalent 870 model, but that's my advice. Get a turkey model.

[gpidaho]

longbow; I've only had it out to the range twice since I picked up the NEF slug gun HiVelocity sold me but I'm pretty impressed with the heavy 11lb+ single shot. The weight really tames the slug loads. 38gr Blue Dot slug loads are very manageable with it. My light break barrel Savage-Stevens hurt with the same loads. Might not be the shotgun you'd want in a Grizzly encounter but it's a lot more fun at the range than lighter guns. Gp PS You can see in my avatar what can happen in a bear encounter with a single shot. LOL

[bikerbeans]

gp,

That bear reminded me of my first wife when i would come home late.

BB

[gpidaho]

BB: And that's why we came home late. Right? It's been years since I've had any female supervision and at my age it's like the old beautiful princess or the talking frog story. I too, would rather have a talking frog. LOL Gp

[Hogtamer]

LB, this a wingmaster police I picked up cheap although like new off gunbroker a couple of years ago. 3" chamber, holds 6+1 - 2 3/4" shells. Fixed IC choke. Finally found a good saddle mount and added good red dot. Shot this buck @ 60 yds or so with a lee 7/8. Reckon if I had to face Mr. Bear this would be my choice, although the videos I've seen of charging bears not sure a short double might not be just as good....those things can move!
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