Rifled Pump Shotgun... Advice?

[longbow]

Pondering finally getting a rifled gun.

Looking at the usual options being Remington 870 and Mossberg 500. I've read pros and cons on each and feel like it is a fairly even match so likely best price wins between the two and it may be a combo option where I think Mossberg wins.

Both are offered in 3 1/2" as well. Can anyone offer advice on whether 3 1/2" is a good choice? Never shot one and mostly load 2 3/4" slug loads but if 3 1/2" hulls are readily available then some filler wads more or less take care of extra space.

I am guessing 2 3/4" hulls in 3 1/2" chamber is not a good way to find accuracy and even 3" hulls leave a large gap to the bore as well but the option is there anyway.

So, pros? Cons? Who's got experience here?

Also, other brand options that are competitive? It seems both Remington and Mossberg offer good quality at a better price than most others. Again, any advice?

I am in Canada so somewhat more limited options than most Americans.

I should add that use is for "plinking" (general blasting stuff and targets) and bear protection so relatively short (18" to 20" barrel and full stock) and open sights being the preferred choices.

Thanks,
Longbow

[DougGuy]

I have a Mossy 500A that I think is 3" only, and I use 2 3/4" walmart slugs in the rifled barrel. It will cloverleaf a playing card @100yds very consistently. It has about a foot or more of smooth freebore before the rifling starts, it's only rifled the last 8" or so of the 24" barrel. I fired a round of 00 buck at a sheet of plywood 10yds away and not one pellet hit the plywood. Rifled barrel is for slugs and sabots *only" so keep that in mind.

[JeepHammer]

I have handled both extensively, in civilian life & in combat zones.
My choice is the Rem 870 hands down.

While the Mossburg 500 'Works' it can have feed jams, and it rattles like a junkyard during an earthquake.

The 870 is MUCH smoother, much quieter, and generally functions better.
The 870 is also longer lived.

3" mags is about all the larger I go, mostly since 2-3/4" cycle through it better than they will a 3-1/2" feed receiver, and I shoot mostly 2-3/4" at clays, and at board matches.
It's hard to find a receiver that won't swallow 3" mags these days, but when I find a steel receiver in 2-3/4" I pick it up.

It's up to you, but this is one time I'd kick out the extra dollars for an 870.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm strongly in favor of the Mossberg 500. I never used one in combat, but when you compare a plain mossberg 500 to a remington 870 express, I'll take the 500. The 870 wingmaster is much more refined. The 870 has a few things going against it. The shell lifter is a point of failure. If you don't get a shell clicked in the mag tube, it can pop out. With Mossberg you just drop a shell. With the 870, you are completely out of commission, and you need to disassemble the gun to fix it. I've seen it happen way too many times. The next thing is the safety. It's hard to reach right handed, and just plain sucks for the left handed. Mossberg put the safety where it was supposed to be.

As for reliability, both speak for themselves. Both are used by the U.S. military.

That said, my personal experiences have not been good with the 870. I can't remember the number I've seen over the years, but far too many have failed. I already said the shell lifter problem. The other problems I've seen are live shells ejecting out the bottom, and the gun locking closed for a second. I've personally shot 870's that lock up. You shoot and pump, but the gun is locked. You almost have to push forward before pulling back. It's a quirk of far too many 870 express's. It could be a burr, or some other manufacturing reminant.

Both Mossberg and Remington's come fairly stiff new. JeepHammer has had better luck than me, but I find 500's run much smoother. They don't lock up, and they run like greased lightning once broke in. I don't know what is loud about a 500, I've hunted with both, and if anything the 870 safety is louder.

As far as 870 longer lived, that's just plain bull. They're pump action shotguns, what's going to wear out? There are all kinds of old 500's out there. Jerry Miculek never managed to wear out his 500, and he has been running it like a mad man for 30 years.

I can't speak for the old guns, but new barrels are fully rifled back to front, or should be.

I played around with 12 gauge 3 1/2" shells for years. I don't think I'll be using one again. You get needed volume with steel shot, but for everything else, the 3" fits everything and then some. You don't want to be lighting off 3 1/2" mags in a gun that light anyway. Once I tried 10 gauge, I never went back. You get sizable improvement in 10 gauge, and you get it in a gun that you can shoot without wincing. You do need to be man enough to haul around a 11-12 pound gun though.

All new 500's and all 870 express models have 3" chamers, they never made 3 1/2". Mossberg has their 535 which is a proper 3 1/2" gun, but not what you need. Remington came out with the 870 super mag, which is 3 1/2", but the old ones were troublesome. The newer ones must be Ok, as the only purpose built remington 3 1/2" pump they made (887) was discontinued.

[toallmy]

I can't really say one is better than the other , but I have always had a least one 12 gage Mossberg 500 it hits what I point it at and feeds whatever I put in it . I have probably purchased 8 or 10 new Mossberg pumps in my lifetime and never broke or wore one out . Currently there is a Mossberg 500 in 410, 20 and 12 in the cabinet .

[elvas]

There is another option. Benelli Super Nova. Chamber is 3", not 2-3/4".
https://www.benelliusa.com/slug-guns

[Hogtamer]

Kent, iirc you've got a nice BPS already. Kinda scarce but there are rifled barrels out there. Is there a Canadian equivalent of Gunbroker? Whatever you choose a 3 1/2" chamber is worthless to me in a pump gun, as I can load more than I can shoot in 2 3/4" hulls with most slugs and buck anyway. FWIW I've got 6 - 870s, one of them for parts. Since you're looking take a look at this....
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/777709965

[NyFirefighter357]

The hot rifled shotgun right now is the Savage 220 it's a 20ga bolt action. The Savage 212 is 12ga bolt action. The 20ga uses a 250gr 45cal sabot Poly tipped pistol bullet while the 12ga uses a S&W 500 50 cal sabot. Both shoot approx. 2000fps. If your in need of a pump the 870 or 500 both will do well enough with rifled barrels. What distance are you shooting? The real advantage of riffled barrels is the accuracy, flatter shooting & reach out to 200yrds. I can shoot a foster slug 100-125yrds in my smoothbore accurately. My rifled shotguns are Marlin 512 Slug Masters 12ga 3" bolt action I usually use 2 3/4 Hornady SST's without accuracy issues out to 200yrds. Mine are sighted in at 150yrds.

[bikerbeans]

If you go the 870 route buy an older, pre 2000, one. Remington ain't Remington anymore.

BB

[Petrol & Powder]

I not going to bad mouth the Mossberg 500 but I disagree with megasupermagnum's characterization of the 870.

The 870 has been in continuous production since 1950 and it is about as tested and proven as they get. It is a rock solid design.

As for the shell lifter being a flaw in the 870, I strongly disagree. The shells are retained in the magazine tube by a pair a shell catches that are operated by the action bars. Those catches work fine unless someone attempts to "improve" them or they are damaged by poor cleaning methods. Most of the problems I've seen with the 870 (and the failures are rare) are the result of operator error. Short stroking the action, failure to load the gun properly or incorrect assembly.

The 870 is monotonously reliable.

The aluminum receiver of the Mossberg 500 makes it attractive to the military due to the weight saving and reduced chance of rust. The tang mounted safety is also ambidextrous. However the plastic safety button on the 500 is a point of failure.

The original shell lifter on the 870 was solid and made a mis-feed a real pain to correct. The newer style lifters have a tab cut that allows a little flex and allows a mis-feed to be corrected with brute force in an emergency. Again, those failures are almost always induced by the operator and not the design.

[Hogtamer]

Oh yeah, a cantilevered barrel is a huge plus for scope mounting!

[jmort]

Next up for me is the spendy Ithaca 37 Deer Slayer III. It is made right.
https://ithacagun.com/product/deer-slayer-iii/
Right now I have a few rifled barrels for my 500 receivers, ported, non-ported, sights, and cantilever.
An Ultra Slug Hunter is my favorite.

Completely agree with this:
"As far as 870 longer lived, that's just plain bull. They're pump action shotguns, what's going to wear out? There are all kinds of old 500's out there. Jerry Miculek never managed to wear out his 500, and he has been running it like a mad man for 30 years."
The 500 is a better design in my opinion. Dual extractors etc. To each his own

[Moleman-]

My best friend likes the 500 and I like the 870. His is old enough that it has a metal safety, but still has the plastic trigger housing. Another highschool buddy (a lefty) has had both and went from the 500 to 870's and has stuck with Benelli since switching to it around 20 years ago. We were goose hunting once and his 500 safety broke in half. I ended up making him one out of aluminum when we got home that night. It was still on his gun a few years later when he loaned it to another guy who wanted to goose hunt with us. The 870 I hunt with is one of the first or second year express models with the metal trigger guard. Only got it because after the switch to steel shot my older 2 3/4" 1100's seemed hobbled. My only gripe about the 870 express is that the finish on it isn't as durable as the wingmasters. Wish they would of just gone with parkerizing or not bead blasted the gun before bluing it. 30 years of use makes the finish look more worn than my much older 1100's.

As far as chambers go, I wouldn't pay extra for a 3.5" chamber unless it was for a gun that would only be used as a goose gun. For slugs a standard 3" or even 2 3/4" is fine and slug availability is better.

[EMC45]

Remington 870. End of story. Police Magnum, older Express Magnum or Wingmaster. Far better gun than the Mossberg. I have owned all manner of shotguns. Winchester, Mossberg, High standard, Remington etc. Bolt action, pump, singles, Semis etc. Have ripped them apart, rebuilt and accessorized them. Remington 870 is the best. Hands down.

The Mossbergs are rattly, have plastic parts, and aluminum receivers. Thumb safety is nice, when they work and don't break in 2.

I have an old (1973) Wingmaster That I have put untold number of rounds through and it just keeps going. I have gutted it, rebuilt it, put different parts an pieces (not due to failure of any kind mind you) on it and it still keeps going. It's diet consists mainly of buckshot and slugs (factory and handloads), but occasionally sees birdshot loads with the old fixed choke vent rib barrel installed. I call it Frankenstein.

I guess I am biased when it comes to Remington. I have had the most success with their guns. I am also a Remington 870 armorer for my agency as well. They are caveman simple and very robust guns.

[725]

Everybody's got their idea, and I don't really disagree with any of the above. Those bolt guns are accurate! I have a Wingmaster with a cantilevered Hastings barrel in 20 ga. and a Hastings heavy barrel on a 12 ga. Tack drivers.

[jmort]

I have to laugh at some of this. No plastic on the 870???. The inferior plastic whatever. For the 870 fans here is what an authority on the 870 plastic has to say:

"The trigger groups are on a polymer housing...I have found the polymer to be completely durable and stays cleaner internally. I have the polymer housing on all of my weapons as do all my employees."
https://www.aiptactical.com/build-your-weapon.html

As to the Mossberg safeties, I switch out to aluminum as I do not feel the plastic safety holds up as well, but I never had a problem with one. Anecdotal statements like my friend's broke mean nothing. When the single extractor on the 870 breaks guess how you fix it??? Let's just say it is a PITA and leave it at that.

[ascast]

Just a little different take on this, I assume you mean 12 ga? I shoot an Ithica Deerslayer in 16ga. With Remington sluggers, it will hold about 4 inch groups at 100 yds all day. On bear or deer (any kind) that is no difference. The rifled will shoot a lot further they say. I don't doubt it. But, rifled guns won't shoot shot of any size worth a dang. Either way, it's about $1 a shot. Maybe you should think about the "PLINKING" part again. have fun

[EMC45]

I have to laugh at some of this. No plastic on the 870???. The inferior plastic whatever. For the 870 fans here is what an authority on the 870 plastic has to say:

"The trigger groups are on a polymer housing...I have found the polymer to be completely durable and stays cleaner internally. I have the polymer housing on all of my weapons as do all my employees."
https://www.aiptactical.com/build-your-weapon.html

As to the Mossberg safeties, I switch out to aluminum as I do not feel the plastic safety holds up as well, but I never had a problem with one. Anecdotal statements like my friend's broke mean nothing. When the single extractor on the 870 breaks guess how you fix it??? Let's just say it is a PITA and leave it at that.

Al my 870s have metal trigger guards. Extractor or ejector?

[Hardcast416taylor]

When I worked part time for a local gunshop I sighted in literally 100`s of shotguns with slugs. By far the best shooting was the old model 870 Wingmaster with Remingtons slug barrel that only had a rifled tube in the muzzle. We found the most accurate slug was the old Winchester 1 oz foster style lead slug. At our 100 yd. range it was common to place 5 slugs in a 4 - 6" group. Even the Mossberg shot better with these slugs. Remingto 1 oz. slugs were all over the target. We told a sales rep about this grouping, he responded that if you listened carefully you could hear the Remington under sized slugs rattle as they went down the barrel! The Winchester slugs are nearer to bore diameter and the final rifle twist was a big help. All you need to do to make a choice between a Rem. and a Mossberg is pick them up and heft them and function the action.Robert

[EMC45]

Replacing the extractor on the bolt is as simple as depressing the spring and rotating the old/broken extractor out and replacing. There is a detent and spring in there that is housed in a channel. Clean channel and oil and repair. Now.....If the ejector plate or spring is what you reference then that is a bigger job. Those are riveted to the side of the receiver. Grind off old peened rivet heads and knock them out of the receiver. Replace the ejector plate and spring and re-rivet. Grind rivets flush on exterior and re-finish.