Have one and it has shot many deerIF you can find one, buy a 1960-70s era Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer as it is the REAL DEAL.
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Have one and it has shot many deerIF you can find one, buy a 1960-70s era Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer as it is the REAL DEAL.
Regards
John
What you get with the 590 vs. the 500 is perhaps a little more ability in the knock-around category. A LOT of crud can be introduced into the magazine via whatever is clinging to the shells at the time they are loaded. The 500 mag system is good at not having a loose mag cap/barrel nut lying around to be displaced, but it's not quite so readily user-cleanable. As a hard-use aftermarket accessory, I like Vang Comp's followers as they have both a donut hole that quickly tells you the mag is empty, and scraper grooves that will collect the worst of the crud they run over. The downside is that, because of the hole, there's no plug to keep crud out once the mag is empty.Originally Posted by longbow
The heavy barrel on a military-grade 590-A1 is probably there to avoid denting in CQB entries and the like, and it does add some weight that may not be desired. A civilian-level 590 will weigh a bit less and cost considerably less. I'll freely admit the plastic trigger housing is merely a pet peeve of mine and in reality, it's unlikely to cause you problems. I would, however, upgrade to a metal safety switch on one (whether it's the OEM military part or an oversize aftermarket from the likes of Vang Comp, I would not particularly care) as I have seen a number of the plastic ones die an early death. Upgrading the safety is going to be a cheaper option than a full-tilt, A1-level gun.
I'd personally want either Parkerizing or a nickle-plated Marine model if I was going to trudge around the wet, wild woods for any appreciable length of time. I've gone to stainless/synthetic hunting rifles as my primaries and not having to fuss over them has been a great addition to my overall experience. That said, once you get a few repetitions pulling the guts out of a Mossberg and putting them back, keeping them properly wiped down is not a big deal.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
Remember the only structural differences between the 500 and 590 is a metal trigger guard, and metal safety. I recommend changing either one to a ProMag safety if you want real thumb purchase. The standard one is fine, but the ProMag is better. As for the metal trigger guard, why worry about it? I've never seen a broken one, and even if it did, the gun would still function. 500 and 590 barrels do not interchange, and the 500 barrels can be found at any gun store, most gun safes, and all over ebay.
Absolutely true, and I would add that, since it's merely a housing and alignment jig for the other parts, you get another maintenance perk as well. I mentioned earlier that the cartridge stops (or shell latches in Remington parlance) are simply held in place by the trigger housing and fall out when you pull that part. This allows really easy cleaning of a receiver that won't rust. The Remington uses the "advantage" of a malleable steel receiver to stake the shell latches in place. How much crud, moisture, and rust is living in the gaps between receiver and spring-steel shell latches? Only way to truly find out is to drive them out, grind off or otherwise work around the stakes, and re-install the latches by beating in new stakes. . .using one or more specialized tools to do it - - or just give it a lengthy bath in an ultrasonic cleaner, blow out, finagle some oil in, and hope for the best. The riveted-in ejector system is, if anything, an even more soul-sucking creator of foul language.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
Longbow: If you have a shotgun that's adequate for hiking about with the bears then why not get a heavy barrel single shot for your plinking toy. You know a bunch more about this shotgun slug shooting than I do but I sure do like the NEF heavy barrel slugger I just picked up. That extra weight really tames those hard kicking loads. Just a thought, but the pump guns be it 870's or 500's are still pretty light and made for packing about not bench shooting. Gp
I'm with you there Gp! I don't currently have a handy packable bear gun though so there is one of two goals and that is to get a handy packable bear gun. The second is long range slug accuracy. I've struggled with smoothore long enough so I think rifled is the next step but I am thinking two guns, each with a purpose is the way to go. The bear gun should be short, handy and at least two fast shots. The fun gun can be a single shot but should be solid and accurate for long range slug shooting.
I wish I had bought an H&R USH when they were available. I may find a used one but they are not as common in Canada as in the States. The heavy barrel is one of the reasons I kinda liked the Remington Super Slug gun but they are a bit pricey and I really don't like the stock. Not sure if the Rossi single shot is still available or not but there is the CVA... except as far as I know they do not do bull barrel. I've been beaten up enough with my light single shot that I'd like some more weight for general shooting.
I am thinking more and more that a short barreled pump or side by smoothbore is the best for packing around for bear protection and something more dedicated to slugs and longer range accuracy for "plinking" and .73 cal. slug fun. A pump or side by will do for bears and maybe I take the step to a Savage 212 for accuracy? Got to look at options there.
Longbow
longbow: I don't think you would be happy with the Rossi's as slug guns. Not that they aren't good little shotguns, just pretty light. I own two of the Rossi's, a twenty gauge and a 410. My 12 gauge break barrel is the Savage-Stevens. About a year ago when I started reading Ajay's posts I was bitten by the slug bug. (Not the VW) Seemed like I could get in rather cheaply with the break barrel light guns but as you know the recoil can be pretty intense. The NEF break barrel I picked up here at the Boolits sales threads from Hivelocity was unfired new in the box and is marked Partner Tracker II Plus It's fully rifled and is a heavy 10 gauge barrel bored 12 gauge so very stout. It's a real joy to shoot after the beating the light break barrels provide. Another resent purchase is the MKA 1919 Match. It might be a little too long for a bear gun but does give five very quick shots in slug and buck combinations out of a five round box magazine The price of the 1919's is pretty reasonable and the reviews say that the bugs in the original models have been worked out. I like mine. I wish we were three or four hundred miles closer so we could spend a day at the range plinking 73 caliber. I'll continue to watch this thread and see what choice you make. Best. Gp
Oh I know about light single shots. my main slug gun is an old Cooey single shot and it is light! I got tired of being hammered with recoil so hard when I shoot off the bench so made a raised cross stick type rest that sits on top of the shooting bench and is easily adjustable up and down. It raises the gun so that I am not leaning into it, more like I am standing so recoil is absorbed much less painfully. Last couple of times at the range I ran 30 rounds each day through the gun off the bench and didn't really suffer from recoil. A heavy barrel gun would be nice though and a USH or the NEF heavy barrel gun would be nice. I wish others did that or that accessory bull barrels were available. I've never seen any though.
The main appeal of the Remington Super Slug is the heavy barrel but that package is a bit pricey for me. If Mossberg made a heavy barrel for a 500 that would be nice. I'd be happy with a heavy single shot for .73 cal. plinking though. Don't need fancy or a repeater, just a solid accurate gun.
To sum things up so far:
I think the decision for a bear gun will be either a pump (most likely Mossberg or Ithaca) or side by in smoothbore. Short and handy with open sights/bead. I just saw two nice Ithaca 37's for sale used so will check those out some more and look for other good used deals too.
For plinking gun, I am good with single shot or bolt gun. Not looking for fancy just solid and accurate. Heavy barrel as you note would be a big plus. I may add weight to the stock too. Greg's comments about "loose" pump guns is well heeded and I remember all the articles written about trying to tighten up pump gun barrels to improve accuracy. Greg's accuracy standards are undoubtedly high than mine but no good reason to ask for trouble using "loose" guns. I'll keep my eyes open for a used USH or NEF heavy barrel gun as first choice and Savage 212 or other bolt gun. Seems to me there were a few makes around a few years ago but Savage is it now.
And in both choices the guns will be 12 ga.
Yes, we are not that far apart. Who knows, once I get set up maybe we can get together. I am seeing retirement on the horizon now... just under a year if all goes well. That'll give me much more time to do things I like. Not a big fan of work these days, it takes up too much of my days, but it pays the bills.
Longbow
One single barrel slug gun that has been overlooked here is the TC Encore with a shotgun barrel and they Rifled barrels with sights and scope mounts and a bunch of other stuff as well.
Have a look at this https://www.tcarms.com/firearms/inte...r-shotgun-slug
Unfortunately they are not giving this one away. $892 MSRP ! But the gun does allow for interchangeable barrels so you could add a Muzzle Loading barrel with whatever on it. I didn't see this Rifled Barrel with Iron Sights (it is available as a loose barrel) which I would want although a Red Dot on the gun would probably be better for hunting in the woods than sights.
https://accessories.tcarms.com/produ...teel-fluted-6/
Something else to look at/ponder.
Randy
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
When I say loose fitting Guns, I typically mean ones that can fit a heavy Shim between the Receiver and Barrel. I shimmed a Mossberg 500 with
some Aluminum from a Soda Can. It worked better, until Recoil and Forces pushed it out. I would think that Tolerances like that are not conducive to Accuracy. Sometimes the Guns can be more accurate than the Shooter, but I'm not too convinced with guns having a lockup in a Barrel Extension.
CNC Machining has allowed tighter Tolerances than before, and the ability to start a Thread where needed. The biggest Complaint of the low number Ithacas is the need to have a new barrel fitted. Why is this an Issue? We don't complain when a Centerfire Rifle needs to be Rebarreled?
Low Number Ithacas can be fitted with a fully threaded Barrel, and free floated. It is not tough, not certainly an universal fit part but well worth it. What level of Accuracy is required?
I had a LE Shooter fire Full bore Slugs with a Tar-Hunt 2 3/4" Bolt Gun. His worst Groups were 1.75 MOA at 100 Yards. Most Groups were 1 MOA. Good Shotgun Slug Ammunition is better than most Shooters, including Myself. I do not include Myself in the same Category as a LE Sniper.
A Properly Hand loaded Slug n 2 3/4" is not any less powerful than the 3". I have loaded plenty of heavy stuff than still stays within SAAMI specs. My Favorite Smoothbore Load is 615 Grains at 1555 FPS. Not fun to shoot, but devastating on Game.
Greg
Don't sell yourself short and please don't think they are the endall. The ones in my town's department are pretty pathetic.
Was at our range one day when the Police "Snipers" were there shooting their $8000 Custom Sniper Rifles. 5 of them. Nice guns with expensive optics and bipods etc.
We have a 2x3 foot plate of steel hung at 600 yards and each took 5 shots at the target and NONE hit it even once! They were shooting off bipods and none of them had even sighted in their guns beyond 100 yards.
After they had finished I asked if I could shoot and they said have at it.
I pulled out my Ruger Scout Rifle (.308) with a 1-5 x Leupold Scope and proceeded to hit the gong dead center(8" group) 5 times in a row shooting off my backpack.
They all clambered to find out my big "Secret?" I told them that I had shot my gun at 200,300,400,500 and 600 yards and knew my Elevation Offsets.
They asked me what "Elevation Offsets" were? And I told them that was the amount of elevation you dialed into the scope when shooting at longer distances. They asked why I did that and I told them I thought that was pretty obvious.
Then one said "we were told we'd probably never have a shot beyond 75 yards!"
Good thing I guess? Because it appeared that a target beyond a 100 or so would be pretty safe.
I asked why they needed $8000 rifles to shoot less than 100 yards?,,, Crickets.
My point? Don't sell yourself short. You might just be alot better than the competition! LE is not known for producing the best marksmen. Sure there are some, but they are the exceptions. When it comes to pistol shooters, I routinely beat most, if not all, of the LE guys at local 3 gun shoots that are less than half my age! (that includes the older ones too)
They routinely shoot once or twice a year and that's it! Various excuses. NO time , NO free ammo,,, blah blah.
I have never been able to resolve with my brain, why a man would choose to carry a gun for a living and not be REAL GOOD WITH IT!
Seems counterintuitive on a massive scale.
IMHO a cop who isn't a "Gun Guy" really shouldn't be a cop.
Maybe that's just me. YMMV
Randy
Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 09-16-2018 at 08:34 PM.
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
I know a local cop somewhat who's not a gun guy. His specialty is reaching out to kids, community outreach, sorta; This PD is a GOOD one from everything I know (there're others not far from here who aren't so good.) I know if I was in that job (Not one I want tho!) I'd be better trained than I've been - And far more current on range time than I am. But, for most LEO's, the tool they use most often is a pen - or computer. Not many shootouts around here that I've heard of.
I have shared that same sentiment for years. Most LEOs view their guns as another piece of equipment on their duty belt. I include shotgun and rifle in that too. Many are sub par performers when it comes to firearms handling and qualifications.
You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.
Have you looked into a Dominion Arms Grizzly? 12 gauge, 10 inch barrel, 5 shot box mag. Norinco nay-sayers will have you believe they're garbage and that may have been true in the olden days. They're cheap, they're sufficiently accurate (especially with zinc slugs), they're portable, and they're legal in Canada.
The barrels are interchangeable with Remington 870, also.
All it takes is one nutcase to go off, and the Pencil/Computer guy is all of a sudden the tip of the spear. Kind of needs to be a sharp point?
And everyone here should know that there are plenty of Nutcases out there. Anti Psychotic Drugs are at the root of this problem, and they are being prescribed to our children at an alarming rate driven by people on the left (Educators and Doctors) thinking they know what they are doing. And if their purpose is to destroy future generations of our population, they are doing a great job!
All of the kids who have "gone off" have been on some kind of prescribed drug to control them in one way or another. All of these school shootings revolve around this fact, however the very first thing you hear before the bodies are cold is gun control! Real good reason for this.
It's called redirecting your attention away from the actual cause.
It is not like Congress isn't aware of this problem. They know full well, and on both sides, what is causing the problem. But when Big Pharma is paying your bills they tend to look the other way.
Remember the little town in WV that was being flooded with Phentanol? Like 2 million doses for 700 people? The people who distributed these drugs, which are on par with Nitro Glycerin, should be in jail! None even got indicted. It all got brushed aside.
Have you ever heard anything about Prescription Drugs being the root cause of these shootings on TV? Why not? It's always guns.
Big Pharma is the third largest Lobby in DC, behind the Friends of Israel and the NRA. There's A LOT of MONEY in DRUGS!
I ran into a guy at one of my LGS's the other day and we talked for a while about Reloading then I asked him what he did for a living?
Well any of you who are familiar with the Ventura Santa Barbara Area of SoCal know about the Polo Fields on the north end of Carpenteria. Well, the area below that used to be a big time Flower Growing Operation owned by this guys family, with 100's of green houses and a perfect moderate climate to grow flowers.
Columbia is now producing those flowers and selling them here for less, so it is no longer profitable to grow flowers here.
But it is profitable to grow POT here, and financed by Big Pharma and Wall street all of those Green Houses are producing $1500 a lb. Pot at an alarming rate. YOU CAN SMELL IT FROM THE FREEWAY AS YOU DRIVE BY!!!!!
Each green house produces 2000 lbs of $1500 a lb. POT every 11 weeks. That's $3 Million every 11 weeks and there are literally hundreds of these facilities. The farmers are essentially renting the space for pennies and the investors are killing it! The people growing the stuff have PHD's in Botany !
The pot they are producing is a thousand times more potent than what we smoked in the 60's! But now it's legal!
Just like Phentanol!
The effects of this scourge on our society are evident and yet we allow it.
That's why every cop needs to be highly proficient with firearms.
Randy
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
Seams like a good place for the Fed to seize some cash and assets .
I haven't seen Norinco's available for a while now but haven't look hard. Heard pros and cons on Norinco. Kind of appealing that they copy 870's so close parts interchange... as long as the quality is reasonable and guns dependable. For a bear gun loose doesn't really matter as long as it functions when needed. Better sloppy but dependable than tight and accurate but finicky reliability or feeding.
There's also Canuck brand which is quite cheap but haven't seen one and don't know anyone with one. I'd be suspicious though as they are too cheap I think. You do get what you pay for.
First goal is to sort out a decent bear gun then look for the accurate slug gun. I kinda need a good bear gun but just want a good shooter. Needs before wants!
Longbow
LB: I was at one of my LGS's yesterday and saw a Mossberg Shotgun, and was showing the girl behind the counter (Nice fully armed girl, named Julie) the difference between how it runs and a Rem 870. She understands the differences and pitfalls now, but daddy still has a 870 Police Magnum which she will take to Front Sight..
I handed it back to her and then noticed it had a 24" bbl with rifle sights. The barrel was rifled! $429! Missed that on the first go round. It had wood furniture that was kind of pathetic but usable none the less.
Something to look at.
Randy
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
Here is my rifled setup ... 870 Police with a Hastings rifled barrel ... 12ga .... and a Vortex 1-4 x 24 scope ... and Magpul furniture ...
Here my groups with Federal Power Shock sabots at 100 meters.
I needed a higher cheek riser in order to shoot accurately ... and the Magpul stock did that for me. After I upgraded the trigger to a Timney trigger .... I am now happy with the setup ... those Hastings barrels are good quality ....
It is my 120 meter/yards "shotgun only" hunting gun .... it shoots 2 inches high at 50 meters/yards ... and 2 inches low at 120 meters/yards ....
Last edited by faustus; 09-20-2018 at 01:27 PM.
I would have predicted a much tighter group.
I would try the Tru-Ball penetrator.
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