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Thread: How about this powder

  1. #1
    Boolit Master vrh's Avatar
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    How about this powder

    Hello everyone,
    Anyone ever tried Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder ? They say it is the same size granular as 2f GOEX. If you have shot this....how did it shoot and how was the clean up after?
    Da Okie/ Now known as Vearl

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



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    Yes I have shot this powder seemed just like real black powder and clean up was way easier YMMV
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
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    A lot has been written about it on forums since the Sportsman's Warehouse sells it for $10 per pound.
    Photos and feedback about it showed that it's granulation appears to be a little larger than Goex 2F.
    Some compared the granulation to kitty litter or cannon grade powder.
    But the powder seems to have a mix of different size granules.
    It's said that it's rebranded American Pioneer Powder.
    A lot of people like using it in revolvers, and it works well in cartridges.
    It cleans up pretty easily with soap & water.
    There's also some reviews on the store website:

    https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/...0268/cat100011

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Their ad claims that real black powder has ignition problems?????????.........and cleaning hassles????????

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I have just gotten started playing with this powder myself and so far have been impressed considering my bad experiences with other imitation black powders. My tests have been with 45 cal PRB. The powder seems roughly equivalent to my 3F Goex loads (55 gr) volumetrically although the recoil seems slightly higher and the impact point has been the same at 40 yards. It is slightly more accurate (!) at that range. With 3F Goex I usually clean after every shot at the range or after two in the field but with the Black MZ, the PRB goes down the bore easier after 6 shots than after the first shot (!!!). Given the climate I live in (Pac NW rainforest) the big question is how fast it pulls moisture out of the air to cause a misfire since Pyrodex is absolutely horrible for that.
    The only test I did for that was leaving a small pile of the Black MZ out on the porch on top of a paper towel for a few days. There was no moisture on the towel compared too either Pyrodex or Goex but I will repeat that test when our fall rains get going.
    My cleanup after shooting in my kitchen (boiling water) seemed the same so far.
    I am not sure if I will hunt with it yet since the ML early hunting season is only two weeks away and I have been using 3F Goex for deer in the 45 for decades.
    Last edited by quilbilly; 09-11-2018 at 01:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder - is NOT real black powder.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



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    rfd
    who said it was real black powder, I don't think any of us who have used it was ever under that impression and at $10.00 a pound it sure doesn't cost anywhere near the cost of real black powder.
    I am wondering how it would work in .36 and .32 caliber black powder firearms. If any one has used it in these calibers what are your experiences. thanks
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  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    Anyone tried this stuff with BPCR?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondiego View Post
    Their ad claims that real black powder has ignition problems?????????.........and cleaning hassles????????
    so people are still allowed to tell lies in adverts !

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by shdwlkr View Post
    rfd
    who said it was real black powder, I don't think any of us who have used it was ever under that impression and at $10.00 a pound it sure doesn't cost anywhere near the cost of real black powder.
    I am wondering how it would work in .36 and .32 caliber black powder firearms. If any one has used it in these calibers what are your experiences. thanks
    theres a writeup on its corrosion capacity in the substitutes thread - I have never used it so dont know - but if they claim corrosion problems and cleanup problems with real blackpowder in their advertising - that would raise a flag agin it for me .

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
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    I will be the 1st to admit that traditional guns that are loaded with black powder will usually outshoot and outperform substitute powders, with better scores and results.
    However, real black powder does produce sulfuric acid which is corrosive, and it can also produce creosote fouling which can become hard and crusty, especially when
    relative humidity is over 30%.
    These are facts that the advertisement may be exploiting.
    I have not read the substitute powder thread and don't have a link to it or the advertisement.
    But the ad seems to be telling the truth since the ascorbic acid or fructose based powders such as APP and Black MZ don't contain these by-products as far as I know.
    It's fouling can still cause rust if it's not cleaned promptly, especially after it absorbs moisture drawn from humid air, but maybe not quite as quickly.

    One of the biggest complaints about Black MZ is the large granulation which might interfere with how it flows out of some powder flasks, also may not allow it
    to flow into the drum, powder chamber or flash channel of some guns after being loaded.
    That can happen with black powder too if the granulation is too coarse or if the nipple or powder chamber gets clogged with fouling and interferes with ignition.
    I don't expect anyone to like Black MZ if they prefer to use black powder.
    But there's plenty of reasons for people to try different powders.
    Sometimes it's just a matter of cost and whether it provides some fun for them to be able to shoot their guns without needing to drive a far distance
    to simply get a powder that works.
    Or if they have some black powder, they can save it for when they really need it and shoot the cheaper powder in the meantime.
    Last edited by arcticap; 09-15-2018 at 03:06 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    for cap guns, the sub cr@p is fine, but not for flinters.

    why in the world anyone would think that real black powder is "inferior", corrosive, and hard to clean is typically due to incorrect information, lack of experience, total ignorance, or all of the aforementioned.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    for cap guns, the sub cr@p is fine, but not for flinters.

    why in the world anyone would think that real black powder is "inferior", corrosive, and hard to clean is typically due to incorrect information, lack of experience, total ignorance, or all of the aforementioned.
    100% kerect!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master vrh's Avatar
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    Well......I'm going to use it first in my inline rifle. If it does good there, then I will try some in my two percussion sidelock rifles.
    Yes I will spend $10 for a pound of powder if it shoots good. Can't understand why BP has gone up to $ 30 a pound.
    Da Okie/ Now known as Vearl

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    real bp is considered an explosive and there are a number of fed requirements for storage and such which, along with less demand than subs and smokeless, make it not cost effective for LGS's to carry it. and we mail order it out ... while we still can do that.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Gunpowder is basically the same price as smokeless.

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  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    Have you ever tried the reenactor powder in a rifle with ball?

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    I haven't yet, but Hanshi has with Jack's Battle Powder and is quite pleased with it. Truth be told, I'm giving serious thought to ordering at least #12 of it since it is so much more economical than other brands (and even more tempting now that Graf's Wano/Schuetzen is out of stock).

  20. #20
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilbilly View Post
    I have just gotten started playing with this powder myself and so far have been impressed considering my bad experiences with other imitation black powders. My tests have been with 45 cal PRB. The powder seems roughly equivalent to my 3F Goex loads (55 gr) volumetrically although the recoil seems slightly higher and the impact point has been the same at 40 yards. It is slightly more accurate (!) at that range. With 3F Goex I usually clean after every shot at the range or after two in the field but with the Black MZ, the PRB goes down the bore easier after 6 shots than after the first shot (!!!). Given the climate I live in (Pac NW rainforest) the big question is how fast it pulls moisture out of the air to cause a misfire since Pyrodex is absolutely horrible for that.
    The only test I did for that was leaving a small pile of the Black MZ out on the porch on top of a paper towel for a few days. There was no moisture on the towel compared too either Pyrodex or Goex but I will repeat that test when our fall rains get going.
    My cleanup after shooting in my kitchen (boiling water) seemed the same so far.
    I am not sure if I will hunt with it yet since the ML early hunting season is only two weeks away and I have been using 3F Goex for deer in the 45 for decades.
    Q,

    Would like to hear a followup from you on how Black MZ works out in the long run because it's plenty humid here in GA even when it isn't raining.

    I bought some Pyrodex RS a few months back because it was what was available locally and I didn't have the $$$ to order real black online (still don't). I found the Pyrodex did cause me rust issues even after a good cleaning and wasn't any easier to load at the range after the first shot. Accuracy was on-par with my 3f Goex loads but not better. This was in a Traditions .50 cal Kentucky rifle (cap fired). Suffice to say that I'm not impressed with Pyrodex.

    Stuart

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check