357/38 Special crud rings

[RedHawk357Mag]

So I spent the afternoon doing some overdue gun cleaning. Spent some considerable amount of time removing crud rings from several revolvers. Stuff I used was Kroil, Hoopees #9 the stuff purchased in the last eight years, 38/357 bore brushes, military AR chamber brushes sans steel wire, Lewis lead removal tool, old 38 bore brushes wrapped in chore boy copper strands, discarded 357 case ran through expander die to scrape cylinder walls and patches. I figured it allways kicks my backside because I put cleaning off until I just plain get embarrassed having a gun get that dirty. So I decided to test my theory. I shot a 90 round box of 38 and went to immediately clean the gun again. Crud ring was just as difficult to remove as the ring was on the super neglected guns, earlier during the day. Probably best solution is buy a honest to goodness 38 Special or stop using the 38 brass. About the only 38 Special that has ever gotten me lathered up was a Colt Diamondback or one of those Detective Specials. I got no shortage of 357 brass but I am probably sitting on at least a honest to goodness Homer bucket of 38 brass trimmed and primer pockets finished out not to mention all the waddcutter brass and molds I have. Anyone got something to try other than chucking the drill up to a chamber brush? Thanks.

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[Thin Man]

After many years of cleaning the crud ring out of service revolvers I have settled on one solution - chamber brushes. These little beauties are larger diameter than your bore and fit tightly in the chamber. They require a pistol length rod with a NON-rotating handle to make them work. I usually install them on the aluminum cleaning rods that used to come in the box with a new S&W revolver. Please don't use a drill as this is a good chance to damage the brush and possibly the cylinder. Brownell's offers chamber brushes in several different calibers, usually in a 3-pack. Their stock number for the 38/357 diameter is 084-455-137. Over the years I have tried every possible solution for this problem and these chamber brushes have been the most satisfactory. You will benefit from wetting the chamber with bore solvent before using the brush. A note of caution - don't try to push one of these down your barrel as you will remember why you didn't want to do that for a long time. And, no, please don't ask me how I know this.

[Murphy]

I learned long ago about the crud ring. I was young and really hadn't heard of it until I experienced it first hand. Sure was a lot of work getting it out. Since that time, if I'm headed out for some plinking fun I take along a small cleaning kit. Look around for a short cleaning rod for handguns and keep a .40 caliber barrel brush handy. Usually, after 5-6 cylinder fulls of 38's I run the brush through the chambers. It seems to have ended my problems with the crud ring. Good luck.

Murphy

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thank you both. Pretty straight forward solutions to ease the effort in dealing with this. Have a great day and thanks for the tips.

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[oldracer]

Years ago I bought a scraper/reamer from Manson Reamers for 357 revolvers that shoot 38's regularly and it does the job in seconds.
John

[725]

I use Ed's Red, good brush, JB Bore cleaner, and sometimes lead removal cloth as a patch. The cloth works very fast and thoroughly.

[Livin_cincy]

I just use 357 brass.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thanks for the heads up Oldracer. Gonna work up to that. I never knew something like that existed. Appreciate all insight shared.

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[uscra112]

I use Ed's Red, good brush, JB Bore cleaner, and sometimes lead removal cloth as a patch. The cloth works very fast and thoroughly.

Was about to post that myself. Ed's Red with a full portion of the acetone is the best thing I've found. I don't shoot .38s in my .357s because it's still a pain. Don't shoot .22 shorts, either. The worst was those Aquila .22 Colibri, which had no powder, just a lot of primer compound. I had to soak an Iver Johnson cylinder for hours, but Ed's Red did get the ring soft enough to brush out easily.

[tazman]

Just out of curiosity, what lube are you using that is giving you such a nasty crud ring?
I ask because I used to have the same problem with one particular type of lube. I have since changed lubes and things clean up much easier after a shooting session.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have NEVER had this problem.

I clean my guns after I shoot them and I have never had a problem with the "crud ring" from shooting 38 Special cartridges in .357 magnum chambers.
If I shoot a couple of dozen 38 Specials and then switch to 357 magnums, there's no problem. If I shoot a couple of hundred 38 Specials and then attempt to chamber a .357 magnum I might need to push the longer cartridges into those dirty, .357 chambers but I've never had a huge problem.

I think some people just do not clean their guns. I also think that some people are trying to remove the transition from the chamber to the throat and are calling that the "crud ring". I don't know.

I've been shooting 38 Specials, many in .357 chambers, for most of my life and I have never found the so called "crud ring" to be a significant problem. I've certainly never had a problem removing debris from 357 chambers.

CLEAN YOUR GUNS AFTER YOU USE THEM !

[tazman]

I have NEVER had this problem.

I clean my guns after I shoot them and I have never had a problem with the "crud ring" from shooting 38 Special cartridges in .357 magnum chambers.
If I shoot a couple of dozen 38 Specials and then switch to 357 magnums, there's no problem. If I shoot a couple of hundred 38 Specials and then attempt to chamber a .357 magnum I might need to push the longer cartridges into those dirty, .357 chambers but I've never had a huge problem.

I think some people just do not clean their guns. I also think that some people are trying to remove the transition from the chamber to the throat and are calling that the "crud ring". I don't know.

I've been shooting 38 Specials, many in .357 chambers, for most of my life and I have never found the so called "crud ring" to be a significant problem. I've certainly never had a problem removing debris from 357 chambers.

CLEAN YOUR GUNS AFTER YOU USE THEM !

I DO clean my guns after each range trip. I HAVE had the issue with the crud ring. After experimenting, I found that the issue was nearly always caused by the particular lube I was using at the time.
Some combinations of lube and powder cause the powder fouling and lube deposits in the chamber in front of the case to get very hard and difficult to remove.
If you have not had this problem, well and good. Don't blame lack of care for the issue in every case.
You don't know about it because you never had to deal with it.

[Petrol & Powder]

Tazman, I was responding to the thread in general, not you in particular.

[tazman]

I didn't take it personally. I was refuting your statement.
Since, by your own admission, you have never had the problem, you really don't understand how bad the problem can be.
I have had the issue crop up under certain circumstances. At the time, it was very annoying. When I changed boolit lube the problem went away.
Some combinations just cause more problems than others with this.
When you have the problem, you need to deal with it. If you can figure out what causes it by changing certain components, you have a solution, so that it doesn't happen again.
Similar in some respects to changing the sizing on a boolit to remove a leading problem.

[Char-Gar]

Clymer made and still makes a 357 deleading reamer that makes short work of this chose. I bought one 25 years ago and never used it. I still have it, I think, but have not seen it in 20 or so years. I just clean the chambers well after each range session and have never had problems putting 357 Magnum cases in those charge holes after shooting 38 Specials.

I don't know whether this is a real problem or not, but it has not been for me.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thanks again for everyone's comments. Lube is White Label Red Carnuba. Previously is was Randy Rats Green Tac. Both are excellent lubes in every way I have used them. If I happen into gifted commercial cast I will cover blue crayon with Ben's Liquid Lube. I shoot an occasional waddcutter load using only BLL. But not enough to make a difference here. I am not referring to chamber rings within the cylinder. This ring which I am referring to is forward of cylinder chamber rings.
As for cleaning guns... your not wrong a person should clean their guns. I will admit when I clean my range guns I am almost embarrassed. And I understand that buildup, by it's nature is more difficult to clean up or off. I tested that once prior to this post. 90 rounds of 38 Special with a sensible load of CFE Pistol or BE86 with a 358156 clone bullet with Green Tac established a reformation of the crud ring. The normal routine of a couple wet patches, followed by a brushing with hoppes, followed by a couple wet patches followed by a dry patch did not remove. It required the scrap 357 magnum case used as a chamber scraper after several repeated expanding passes on the press. The brass casing would chip the crud ring with each insertion and I would extract and rotate the casing and chip off the crud and reexpand the casing when extraction of case become easy or starting the next cylinder hole. With the casing you can actually see the crud ring chip away. What remains is a faint trace of where the ring was scraped away. Multiple passes with a typical copper bore brush with hoppes will eventually clear the trace remains. Thats with a estimated 20 to 25 passes. I can tell the ring is gone when the mirror like finish has returned up to the chamber rings. The trace after scraping is very dull looking as opposed to the mirror finish of the rest of the chamber. I have great faith that brushing between every two cylinders and possibly using patches made from "lead cleaning cloths" to lightly scrub crud rings will be my way ahead. If that doesn't work the chamber scraper by Manson will probably be my next course of action. I have ordered and received a large selection of bore/chamber brushes to test this.
The lube thing may have merits...some folks have crud rings and some don't. In my mind, and in my experience, the cleaning or not cleaning in over and under of 100 rounds made little difference in the effort to fully remove the ring. But we are all probably using different lubes. I know I have nothing but praise for my lubes. I will scrub a little more to maintain the other results that White Label and Green Tac bring to my table. But it may very well be suspect.

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[RedHawk357Mag]

I didn't take it personally. I was refuting your statement.
Since, by your own admission, you have never had the problem, you really don't understand how bad the problem can be.
I have had the issue crop up under certain circumstances. At the time, it was very annoying. When I changed boolit lube the problem went away.
Some combinations just cause more problems than others with this.
When you have the problem, you need to deal with it. If you can figure out what causes it by changing certain components, you have a solution, so that it doesn't happen again.
Similar in some respects to changing the sizing on a boolit to remove a leading problem.

Exactly, it caused me to put all my 38 Special brass in a Homer bucket to discard. But I had so much loaded 38 that it pained my heart to not recover the lead without pulling the loads one by one. Which led me to test a clean gun with 90 rounds and that excerise led me to post here for ideas as I know in my heart 38s get shot alot and I can't be the only one who has been down this road before.

If I were to guess, I would guess within 150 rounds 357s will not chamber under their own weight without assistance from me. Since that's not the design of the gun I don't assist and shoot a different gun if the desire to shoot Magnums is upon me. If you have encountered this before then I suspect you have had a crud ring. Your crud ring may not have the tenacious nature that some others had to contend with. Be thankful because it's a huge not fun task to handle.

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[tazman]

Green Tac1 was what I had problems with. I loaded it with full power loads of Bullseye.
Anything over 50-60 rounds and I had a job of work getting the crud ring out.
Now I use White Label NRA 50-50 and have no problems at all.

[marek313]

I clean my guns after every trip. I hate dirty guns so they dont last long in my house. I shoot fair number of both 38S and 357M but I also always carry bore snake in 9mm so i usually use that as cylinder gets dirty.

[El Bibliotecario]

I have found USGI ,30 and 7.62mm rifle chamber brushes work fine for cleaning revolver cylinders. The tapered end allows use on differing calibers. These brushes cost significantly less than purpose made revolver chamber brushes, and are very durable.