Titegroup?

[Half Dog]

Details:
9mm Kimber Custom II (1911 A1)
Barrel slugged 0.355"
Boolits sized 0.356"
Boolits are 15 BHN (using a Lee hardness gage)
120 grain TC
Hi-Tek coated (passed the smash test)
Speed - Unknown, I do not have a chronograph
Expanding the brass using a M Die
Crimped using a factory crimp die
Powder - 3.4 - 3.7 gr. Titegroup
Primer - Federal Small Pistol

Question:
I am having a leading issue. The lead streaks go down the entire barrel with more deposits seeming to be towards the crown. According to the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3.3 to 3.7 grains of Titegroup can be used safely so I feel the speed is not excessive. I also saw where someone else was having issues using Titegroup with the Hi-Tek coating but I'm not sure his conclusion was accurate. Can someone share his experience with this issue and hopefully what I need to do different to eliminate the leading issue?

Thanks in advance

[oteroman]

What is the speed of your Bullets?
You want “us” to fix/help you but you don’t want to buy/use a 100 buck chronograph.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[oteroman]

TG is the worst powder to use with lead and lead coated bullets by the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[dkonrai]

Yup. Plus 1 on that Intel. 231, bullseye or unique for lead.

TG is the worst powder to use with lead and lead coated bullets by the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

[tazman]

I would say that since you are using coated boolits and still getting leading, the boolit size is too small. I would try .357 or, if it will chamber, .358.
I use Titegroup with a Lyman 356402 120(nominal) grain boolit that is sized .357 in my Range Officer and get no leading at all. I coat the boolits with tumble lube(White Label X-Lox).
My alloy is range scrap that is water dropped from the mold without any further heat treating. I doubt mine are harder than yours.
I am loading 4.0 grains of Titegroup and getting roughly 1100fps.
My Range Officer also slugs at .355 but will chamber up to .358 without problems.
I have never tried a boolit sized .356 in it since my other 9mm barrels slug larger and I use the same loads for all of them.
I also use Titegroup in my 45acp, my 40S&W, and my 38 specials all with cast boolits.

[Rcmaveric]

I use Tightgroup at 3.5g. I would try a .357 bullet. I dont get any leading. Just antimony wash. These are air cooled bullets.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[sigep1764]

Not all of us shoot at ranges that allow the setup of a chronograph so not all of us have one. I for one shoot at an indoor range with multiple lanes in use from open to close. Since there are always lanes in use, there is no safe way to set up anything beyond the firing line. Targets are hung on automated cable systems.

The OP gave us plenty of info in order to start offering suggestions and possible solutions. 356 is only 1thou over groove diameter, others suggested using 357 or 358. Another place to look is to see if the 9mm cases are swaging the boolits smaller than groove diameter allowing gas cutting.

Oteroman, simply stating that Titegroup is the worst powder for shooting cast boolits is of no help without the story of your experience with using that particular powder. Would you mind sharing it?

[tazman]

I am lucky in that the club where I shoot has individual walled off pistol ranges available where I can put up any equipment I wish without worry about other shooters.
There ranges are fairly short, pistol length ranges but very handy.
I understand the issues with indoor ranges and chronographs. Many chronos won't work under electric lights in any case.
Outdoor ranges that are busy can also be a problem for chrono use for the same reason mentioned by sigep1764.

[Mal Paso]

Crimped using a factory crimp die

Pull a loaded round down and measure the bullet diameter.

[JimB..]

Pull a loaded bullet and see if the coating is intact. Increase size as suggested by others. Stop using the FCD.

Your load doesn’t seem out of line.

I shoot a lot of coated bullets with titegroup, no problems. Obviously others have different experiences.

[kungfustyle]

From my experiance there is nothing wrong with Tightgroup. I shoot it with cast in everything 380, 38special, 357, 45 ACP and 44 Mag. It's not the tighgroup. Your size is probably off. The factory crimp die is what is killing the loads. It's great for rifles but sizes down the lead too much for pistols. Loose the crimp die and seat all the bullets with your reloading die then go back and put a slight taper crimp with your non factory crimp die.

[Rcmaveric]

I have found that if using the Lee FCD for 9mm. Seat and crimp separately makes the difference. I suspect that die is crimping before the bullet is fully seated and that is what causes the problem. I have dummy round. I adjust the FCD so it seats the bullets without crimping to the dummy. Seat all my bullets. Then i adjust the crimp to my dummy so that it only crimps and doesnt seat. That makes the difference for me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[LaPoint]

I had the same problems with Titegroup using mixed brass. I realized that I wasn't belling the case mouth enough. After slightly increasing the bell on case mouths my leading problem disappeared. JimB's advice is sound.

[Half Dog]

I want to say thanks for the responses. It will be a couple of weeks but I'm looking forward to trying your suggestions.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If your boolits aren't being swaged down from the FCD, there is another thing to consider...
New 1911 clones tend to have abrupt throats(most need chamfering for boolit use), That is compared to most other 9mm semi-auto's.
Have you made a few dummy rounds with your PC'd boolits?
When you cycle them, is the PC scraped off?
Also, maybe try some lubed boolits.

[marek313]

Couple things here I would change.

1. Size to .357
2. Try different powder as TG burns really fast and really hot.
3. 3.4-3.7gr of TG sounds really low. I run Lee 356-125-2R which drops at 130gr with 4gr of TG when I have to use TG but I try not to. Little bit more powder might actually help obtrude that bullet properly and seal gasses.

[tranders]

I had a tough time using Titegroup in 9mm with lead projectiles. I gave up and switched to plated for 9mm. No problems with TG in 38 Special and 45acp with lead projectiles.

I think Titegroup isn't the best choice for lead because it burns hot and fast and all things must be about perfect to eliminate leading. IMHO

[Rcmaveric]

For me it seams Tight Group likes room to grow. Works great in small charges with space. It works adequately in 9MM Luger for me, but i feel there are better powders. I really havent pursued anything else because it works good enough to ring steel at 15 yards. I do want to try Unique but i also want to try some plane based gas checks to see if that will help tighten up the accuracy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Dieselhorses]

Not sure where a chronograph would solve anything in this situation. Bullets need to "obturate". "Obturation" is the expansion of the bullet inside bore, thus preventing any hot gases from beating your slug to the finish line. You can achieve this by softening your alloy. I don't do "Hi-Tek" but I powder coat. I have found that powder coating is quite forgiving in many ways. Good luck!

BTW, I pulled bullets loaded with Tite Group that were stored "bullet face down" from 2 years ago-powder coat not damaged.

[bobthenailer]

Athough I don't use Tightgroup in the 9mm or 38 super as med burn speed powders give me better accuracy, I have never had a leading or accuracy issue in a straight walled case from 38 special to 454 casull or pistol cartages in 380, & 45acp with lead bullets.
I just finished of my second 8lb jug of Tightgroup recently, and have bought another.