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Thread: Reloading my 45-70

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    SE Indiana
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    Reloading my 45-70

    Hi all. I have a few questions. I hope others can help me with.
    Here is what I am doing.
    C Sharps 34" barrel 45-70
    Using the BACO 540 gr .443 PP money bullet.
    Winchester LR primers
    81 gr. of Old Ensford f1.5 I am using OldEnsford 1.5 because that is what I have. I see most people seem to be using swiss. f1 or f1.5
    2 ea. .030 LDPE wads because I don't have the.060 ones.
    Remington fireformed cases.
    #9 onion skin paper.

    When using 81 gr of powder dropping it down a 32" drop tube I can't get the case to accept the full charge of powder without spilling out, so I almost fill the case compress it then fill the rest of the powder. install the wad and compress again to what I need. (A question on compression also.) Am I doing something wrong?
    Is anyone using Old Ensford in their 45-70 PP?
    Just wondering what compression are you using and what is your finished bullet & case OAL? I read where Goex needs more compression then swiss?
    I have been seeing loads with using Swiss but nothing really on using Goex Old Ensford and it seems with Goex it anywhere from .150 to .200 compression????
    I am trying to get some accurate loads with what I have on hand.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Olde Eynsford works pretty well with .2 compression and more, some loads will go to almost .4
    I get great accuracy from my Shiloh 45-70 with 75 gr of OE 2f in hornady cases primed with rp 9 1/2 , a thin napa rubber cork wad and a dry lubed felt wad with a .446 525gr money bullet cast from 16-1 wrapped in Seth Cole 55w seated .2 into the case, or just deep enough that the loaded round will chamber without having to use a camming tool. If I were to use 1.5 OE I'ld probably start at 75 grains and work up if necessary.
    GUSA #6
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    1,269
    Cap,
    There is nothing super mystical about the 82 grs. The trick is to put in as much powder as it takes to hold the bullet in position in the case. Since OE seems to be less dense use less powder. Maybe it will be 78 grs or whatever. Don't worry that your load will be under powered. You have excess horsepower, no matter what. Use enough that when you drop tube it into the case, there is room for your two wads (2 .030s are good, get .060s next time). Compress so that there is 0.100" of case space for your bullet and you are good to go.

    Sometimes you just have to be pragmatic. This is one of those times.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    653
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptnJack View Post
    Hi all. I have a few questions. I hope others can help me with.
    Here is what I am doing.
    C Sharps 34" barrel 45-70
    Using the BACO 540 gr .443 PP money bullet.
    Winchester LR primers
    81 gr. of Old Ensford f1.5 I am using OldEnsford 1.5 because that is what I have. I see most people seem to be using swiss. f1 or f1.5
    2 ea. .030 LDPE wads because I don't have the.060 ones.
    Remington fireformed cases.
    #9 onion skin paper.

    When using 81 gr of powder dropping it down a 32" drop tube I can't get the case to accept the full charge of powder without spilling out, so I almost fill the case compress it then fill the rest of the powder. install the wad and compress again to what I need. (A question on compression also.) Am I doing something wrong?
    Is anyone using Old Ensford in their 45-70 PP?
    Just wondering what compression are you using and what is your finished bullet & case OAL? I read where Goex needs more compression then swiss?
    I have been seeing loads with using Swiss but nothing really on using Goex Old Ensford and it seems with Goex it anywhere from .150 to .200 compression????
    I am trying to get some accurate loads with what I have on hand.
    Thanks
    That"s almost what I shoot in my C Sharps 1874/ 34" Badger barrel 18 twist , except I use starline brass/0.60 wads and 79.2 grains of OE 1.5F @ .100 compression . It fits just right with a 34 inch drop tube and shoots good for me /Ed

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Wyoming
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    I don’t understand how compressing affects combustion, it seems like an imprecise task that depends upon several factors such as consistency in how one pours into a drop tube, height, powder lot etc. I use OE and haven’t yet proven to myself it’s that important. Same with using a drop tube. I haven’t seen significant differences on the target at 200 yards. I know this is all heretical. It just may be that I not a particularly good shot. I’m just trying to simplify the reloading process as much as possible.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    May 2017
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    633
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    I don’t understand how compressing affects combustion, it seems like an imprecise task that depends upon several factors such as consistency in how one pours into a drop tube, height, powder lot etc. I use OE and haven’t yet proven to myself it’s that important. Same with using a drop tube. I haven’t seen significant differences on the target at 200 yards. I know this is all heretical. It just may be that I not a particularly good shot. I’m just trying to simplify the reloading process as much as possible.
    Ragnar
    If you have the opportunity to shoot over a chronograph - that may shorten the learning curve
    A variation in velocity that means nothing at 100yards, has minor effect at 200, is a PITA at 500yards, is likely a cause of serious problems out yonder.
    I am no guru of this art but seems to me that drop tubes - vibrating cases to settle the load - varying amount of compression - is all about getting even and consistent combustion - which will show as low shot to shot variation over the chronograph.
    You are right in your suspicions of the drop tube, mine has two choke points - a small neck powder funnel and a 223 case down the tube a bit and STILL it makes a difference - up to 1/10th inch depending on how I pour (fast or slow) -- if you disect a case with a compressed load you find variation down the case in the amount of compression - squashed grains at the neck and whole grains at the primer end - definitely an "imprecise task" as you put it. Making good long range loads is more of an art form really.
    On top of that you have to sort out the Bull$hot artists from the real ones - (I proly end up in the wrong pile when ya do that bit!)

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Ragnar I work loads up using a chronograph. Its interesting to see the extreme spreads ( ES) and Standard deviation (SD) drop as compression goes up. When I work up a load I start at no airspace no compression just the wad on the powder and bullet hand seated onto the wad. I then work up in 2 grn increments till best 3 loads are found I then rest at the mid point. I drop powder into cases thru a 3 ft drop tube , with a slow pour into the tube from the pan. When I do this the powder levels are very close in height to each other. Some simply use the slow pour from 3"-4" above the funnel. When I compress I do it with a die and the .060 wad in place. Hand seated bullets overall length normally are with in .005. With the lower load in my 45-90 ( duplicates a 45-70 bp round)I set the powder charge with what I needed for 1150-1200 fps and used a granular filler to set compression and remove air space. As the filler went up SD and ES went down to a point then started to climb again

    Another thing I see is fouling goes down as compression get to the optimum point for bullet, load, and rifle. This makes me think the compression is making the powder burn more efficiently.

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks for the resposes ij and cj. I donít have a chrono so Iíll take your word on it and take some extra loads to the next lr match to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Ragnar I work loads up using a chronograph. Its interesting to see the extreme spreads ( ES) and Standard deviation (SD) drop as compression goes up. When I work up a load I start at no airspace no compression just the wad on the powder and bullet hand seated onto the wad. I then work up in 2 grn increments till best 3 loads are found I then rest at the mid point. I drop powder into cases thru a 3 ft drop tube , with a slow pour into the tube from the pan. When I do this the powder levels are very close in height to each other. Some simply use the slow pour from 3"-4" above the funnel. When I compress I do it with a die and the .060 wad in place. Hand seated bullets overall length normally are with in .005. With the lower load in my 45-90 ( duplicates a 45-70 bp round)I set the powder charge with what I needed for 1150-1200 fps and used a granular filler to set compression and remove air space. As the filler went up SD and ES went down to a point then started to climb again

    Another thing I see is fouling goes down as compression get to the optimum point for bullet, load, and rifle. This makes me think the compression is making the powder burn more efficiently.

  9. #9
    At this point in my BP loading learning curve is to get consistent powder column height. Right know Iím pouring weighed charges into a case and vibrating the case till I get the column height I want, slooowww work indeed. I tried pouring through a 40 inch tube with a consistent pour but that did not work well for me. Short arms long tube and inconsistent results Iím going to make a vibrating set up for the drop tube using Brents idea/design. The top funnel will start with a small, .125 hole, and if that hole is too small I will keep enlarging the hole in .005 increments to the powder does not jam and meters through the funnel at an even rate while vibrating. I would like to be able to get the vibrating system to pour plus or minus .005 of the nominal powder column height I want. One can get quite a bit of powder into a case using a vibrator,that, in my case is a vibrating metal marking apparatus.
    Good luck Richard

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
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    I was also looking at a vib. set up>Winter project.
    Thanks.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I can tell the difference in sound with a compressed load as opposed to a non-compressed load.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    When I was shooting my 45-70's I used 68 grains of Goex FFG and it worked great out to 800 yards which was as far as any rang I could go to was. I used a 540 grain BACO Creedmoor pure lead bullet over milk carton and newspaper wads.
    John

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check