Reduced power spring for S&W

[gnostic]

Always a bad idea. Wolf Springs says, 'don't use lighter springs on self defence handguns' on their website...

[wv109323]

I lightened the springs on a 686. The trigger pull got dangerously light. Like 1/2 pound. I went back up in weight.

[edp2k]

Here is one trick to try which lightens the mainspring tension, which is 100% easily and quickly reversible.

Take a spent small pistol or rifle primer, remove the anvil, take a punch and remove the dent from the original firing pin impact.
now back off the mainspring strain screw
(make sure you use a good quality hollow ground screwdriver of the correct thickness and width;
Brownells screwdriver tips are great and won't bugger the screw slot or trash the screwdriver tip).

Place the spent primer between the screw tip and the mainspring with the cup side facing the screw.
Snug the screw down.
Shoot 50 rounds of your reloads using the live primer brand of your choice (or factory loads) to test reliability.

If you have reliability problems its a 2 minute fix to remove the spent primer and restore everything back to 100% original.
Many/most people I know experience reliability problems when lightening the mainspring.
Using this method is a cheap and easy way to try things and then be able to completely reverse it back.

[oldhenry]

I always use factory S&W main spring with strain screw all the way in. I do all of my changes to the trigger return spring & the power of it depends on what it takes to reliably return the trigger after I've honed the bore of the return spring, polished the sliding surfaces & shimmed the hammer.

I didn't have ignition problems with Winchester or Federal primers in my 25-5, 25-2 or 686 in IPSC.

[EMC45]

I actually went heavier Xtra Power Wolff for my I and J Frames. I like the snap.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I pretty much followed what oldhenry said - factory mainspring and setup, polish rebound block, sliding surfaces,return spring bore, then dry fire hundreds of times, check hammer, trigger for rubbed spots, shim accordingly. See how fast you can pull the trigger 100 times as an exercise, left and right-hands. Smooths the action AND strengthens your hand and trigger finger.

[salvadore]

Like jtarm, grinding and clipping is all on me. When I screw up, S&W springs are readily available. My M-17 is going on 30 yrs and is by far my most used shooter. I don't keep records but even at 1,000 rds per year, but, shooting a full 500 rds in a session hardly ever less than 200 rds anyway a lot more than 30,000 rds. The 30 year old ground and clipped springs still return the trigger and fire the cartridge.

[Goldstar225]

I was wanting a lighter trigger pull in my J frame S&W's (60-15 & 642). I ordered the Apex kit which consists of a reduced mainspring, reduced trigger return springs, reduced power firing pin spring and firing pin. The firing pin had a much smaller nose to it, presumably to give a deeper indent to the primer. I installed it in the 60-15. The trigger was great! Much lighter pull. Off to the range for the test. My accuracy improved with the Apex setup but I noted that the indents on the primers were much shallower, even with the new firing pin. Out of 100 rounds with a variety of primers I had 1 misfire. That's too much since these are defensive revolvers. I reinstalled the factory mainspring and firing pin, kept the reduced power trigger return spring. It was a bit of an improvement. I installed a reduced power (12 #) Wolff trigger return spring in the 642 but kept the factory mainspring. Another range trip with both guns. 100% ignition and a slight improvement in trigger pull.

If these were to be used only for target shooting I would have used the full Apex kit but for defensive use it's s no-go for me.

[Drm50]

I have a 19 I bought 30yrs ago. I was 3rd owner and new the guy that bought it new. He bought
after market springs and had a scope on the gun. Second guy sold it to me because of misfires.
Gun worked perfect with Win ammo but wouldn't fire much else, consistently. It was the main
spring. I put a stock S&W main in it and it will shoot anything now. Even hand loads with CCI
primers.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think this topic falls squarely in the "It depends" category.

I have a model 10 that is stock and I wouldn't change anything. It is as close to perfect as it's going to get. Same holds true for a model 629 that I have.

However, I have a model 64 that did receive a reduced power mainspring. It is purely a range toy and not a self defense gun.

I like a very positive trigger reset so I often do not reduce the weight of the trigger return spring.

These topics spread far beyond what can be covered in a brief forum post. There are times when some knowledgeable and prudent work can be performed on a DA revolver and make things better. There are also times when things should be left alone.

[imashooter2]

Here is one trick to try which lightens the mainspring tension, which is 100% easily and quickly reversible.

Take a spent small pistol or rifle primer, remove the anvil, take a punch and remove the dent from the original firing pin impact.
now back off the mainspring strain screw
-snip-

This increases spring tension. To reduce spring tension you make the strain screw shorter, not longer.

[Petrol & Powder]

This increases spring tension. To reduce spring tension you make the strain screw shorter, not longer.

/\ Correct and adding the spent primmer cup to the end of the strain screw is an old trick to add length to a strain screw that has been previously shortened.

Occasionally you will run across a S&W that someone has shortened the strain screw on (not a good practice in my opinion) and the solution is to replace the screw with one of the proper length. However, if you don't have a full length screw available, the expedient fix is to place a spent primer cup with the anvil removed, over the tip of the strain screw.

[Bigslug]

I have handled and shot the late Ed McGivern's show guns which are now in the NRA Museum.

They all had stock springs and stiff actions. He wanted them to WORK!

Not only that, he wanted them to work FAST. What was he running? Five rounds into a playing card in two fifths of a second? (or so says Wiki). That's a submachinegun cyclic rate of fire, made possible by springs that make the hammer fall quick and the trigger rebound quick. The gun is made that way to power through debris that may have worked into the mechanism and also to set off hard primers - & I've seen failures on both ends of the gun from monkeying with either spring. Seeing as Ed was shooting marbles out of the air with presumably the exact same gun, the heavier springs didn't appear to be a hindrance to his accuracy.

McGivern and his stock guns are a monument to the philosophy of fixing the issues with your technique rather than fixing a gun that isn't broken. Unless you're physically compromised and need to make allowances for a handicap, spend the money on ammo & practice.

[lightman]

I've replaced the springs in several of my S&W revolvers. Most were with either Trapper Gun Works or Wolf springs. After I replace them I immediately put the original springs back in the replacements spring package, staple it closed, mark what it came from and put it in my box of parts. If you shoot in competition I suggest running a few hundred rounds of the exact load through your revolver to prove its dependable. Anything I carry for defense has the factory springs in it. I have polished the sides of the hammer, trigger and rebound block on several revolvers. I don't have the tools or machinery to work on the sear engagement notch.

The fired primer trick is neat! I have filed that away for future needs!

[slughammer]

McGivern and his stock guns are a monument to the philosophy of fixing the issues with your technique rather than fixing a gun that isn't broken. Unless you're physically compromised and need to make allowances for a handicap, spend the money on ammo & practice.

I think we are all physically compromised compared to Ed McGivern! With the amount of shooters we have and their access to ammo (extra money in today's modern economy); nobody has beat him, and few can come close.

I've read Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting (several times), it's where I learned how to shoot double action. Ed was not afraid to have a gun modified to suit him. (Sights etc)

There is plenty of variation in stock springs to say they are not all the same. I keep stock springs around for when I sell a gun, but my shooters have been measured and tuned to where I want them for the purpose they serve (defense, hunting, fun, sport).

Keeping stock springs is like keeping stock cylinder throats and grips. Too much variation in what "stock" might be. What you get is just luck. I might get one that is perfect, but bragging about it doesn't discount that somebody else got one that needs to be tuned.

[Thin Man]

This thread reminds me about the first armorer's class I attended. It was for the S&W revolvers (yup, I'm THAT old!). The instructor was Lester Limrick who was the top armorer for the FBI in their Quantico facility. He was at the top of the food chain, the "boss without a boss" so to say. He told us the following story:

Lester was called to court to testify about a police officer's revolver. The officer had shot and killed a fellow and the revolver he was carrying at the time had been tuned (modified) so it was different than "stock" original issue. A civil lawsuit was brought based on the claim that the officer's firearm had been altered to make it faster to shoot. We don't know how they had this knowledge. Lester had already inspected the firearm before he took the witness stand. The plaintiff's lawyer asked Lester about the firearm's lockwork. Lester replied that the rebound spring had been reduced by 1 1/2 - 2 coils, and that the trigger pull was lighter from that change. The attorney then asked if this change made the firearm faster to shoot. Lester surprised the lawyer when he answered "no" and he explained as follows. When the rebound spring is reduced the pull weight against the trigger is lighter than original. However, the trigger recovers to it's "ready to fire again" position slower than it did when it had an original "uncut" rebound spring in it.
This revolver is slower to fire all it's rounds than an original, unaltered firearm. The tone of the lawyer's questions changed after that exchange. When the trial was over the jury found favor with the police officer's defense and awarded no damages to the family who brought the claim.

This story has remained with me for many years and I still use it as an example when customers ask about making the lightest trigger pull possible in their handguns. It's not just an issue with lawsuits against the owners of firearms that have been modified. This story also speaks to firearm reliability for those people without knowledge of their firearm's requirements when they produce novice firearm alterations.