Graf & SonsWidenersTitan ReloadingLee Precision
Inline FabricationStainLess Steel MediaMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2

Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Die schematics

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    3

    Die schematics

    I have a real hydraulic press (25 tons), so I'd like to try to make some dies for it rather than throw money at pricey dies that are meant to work with hand-operated presses (I have both a CNC mill and a manual lathe and I'm fairly confident in my ability to get the job done). That being said, I've never done *any* metal swaging in the past, so I'm unclear on the sorts of tolerances and slack on the die internals that would be needed for swaging. Does anyone out there have schematics for their swaging dies that I could try to machine?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    LEESBURG VA
    Posts
    729
    Welcome, you're in the right place. Many posts have been made including answers to that same question. There is a sticky on that as well as a series made by Cane_man who made some .308 dies. Good luck, I myself am suffering from information overload.
    justbill

    http://www.rtconnect.net/~wjmanley/S...ASswagedie.pdf
    This may help the internal workings of dies, however the outside stuff can be adjusted to your particular requirements.
    Last edited by just bill; 09-07-2018 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Added reference

  3. #3
    Boolit Master BlackoutBuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Reloading Bench
    Posts
    359
    Most die makers wont give that out. This will help....http://www.corbins.com/hb9-text.htm
    NFA = [B]N[/B]ot [B]F[/B]reaking [B]A[/B]merican

    It would be less disrespectful to burn the flag than to put a thin blue line through the middle of it.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    az
    Posts
    201
    when you start making them and see how much work their is you might just buy them.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by rbt50 View Post
    when you start making them and see how much work their is you might just buy them.
    Oh I know it's a lot of work to make dies and tooling in general, but I know I'll be a lot happier cracking my own dies by improperly setting the press's limit switch than cracking a $500 set of them.

  6. #6
    Vendor Sponsor


    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    373
    A better plan is to understand the pressure limits for each caliber of die and don't exceed it. This is slightly boring as you won't experience a die self destructing at odd times, but does save on cost and expense.

    Just saying, it's not a mystery about how much pressure each die can take.
    Zbench

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    63
    That would be like not having my 30,000 rpm 7 h.p. Perske spindle motor on CNC router occasionally grabbing a part and flinging it across the shop at the speed of a subsonic rimfire round. Having a shaper bit, router bit, end mill explode, part fly across the shop or Delta Unisaw and big 12" radial arm saw throwing a board at you or try to suck you in is the spice of life. It's all the near misses that keeps you paying attention, alive and boredom at bay.
    For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions

  8. #8
    Vendor Sponsor


    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    373
    Most people watch sports or maybe speed on the highway. Huey, you take it to a whole other level!
    Zbench

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    az
    Posts
    201
    yes I know about cracking dies.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NW Ohio, almost as N and W as you can be :-)
    Posts
    2,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Surgo View Post
    Oh I know it's a lot of work to make dies and tooling in general, but I know I'll be a lot happier cracking my own dies by improperly setting the press's limit switch than cracking a $500 set of them.
    What diameter die body would be needed to take the full 25 tons without hurting the die body ??

    That is what I would aim for .

    At a past job we made all kinds of cold and hot forming dies. Quite often there was an outer die case that had a taper in the ID, the forming sections were made up and pushed into the die with a press, the same press had a large gear you sat over the nut that held the stuff in the case, so the press could tighten the nut with pressure on the inserts.

    I would think a 3" dia case would take 25 tons ?? But just guessing.

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    228
    I've done some swaging die designs. Specifically for 9mm and 308 Cal bullets. Designed for smaller RCBS single stage type press. The key I've found it to not try and do to much with one die, the tolerances between the punches and die set should be tight enough to prevent the jacket or lead core to bleed past the punch and die but loose enough to allow for them to freely slide. I've typically allowed .002-.003 total or .001 to .0015" per side between the punch and the die.

    Corbin has some good information on what the strength of his H-type dies are, specifically for use in his hydraulic press in order to prevent cracking the die. 25 Tons is quite a bit of pressure and I think you'll find that you'll be able to do the vast amount of lead core bullet swaging with significantly less pressure. If you're looking to swage monolithic bullets you might need pressures approaching that.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master tiger762's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    NE Georgia
    Posts
    389
    I would approach the question from the other direction. Start with swaging pressure (10,000 psi) and bullet diameter, and work backwards to answer "what force when divided by bullet cross-sectional area will give 10,000 psi"

    As an example, a 45 caliber bullet has a cross-sectional area of 0.159 square inches. To achieve 10,000 psi, one needs to apply 1590 pounds (three-quarters of a ton)

    Rethink why you must apply 25 tons. That is more like what is needed to extrude lead wire from a 2" diameter billet.
    Last edited by tiger762; 09-08-2018 at 05:21 PM. Reason: misspelled word

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger762 View Post
    Rethink why you must apply 25 tons. That is more like what is needed to extrude lead wire from a 2" diameter billet.
    Well, I need to apply 25 tons because that is the press that I own Yeah, I plan to first make a lead extrusion die.

    I've found that OnShape has FEA so that should at least tell me whether or not my designs are going to drastically fail on me. If they don't, I'll publish the schematics for them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check