Casting for Thompson Center Hawken 45 cal.

[kbbgood]

I am trying to figure out What blocks I need for making 45 cal. bullets for a Thompson Center Hawken. Can't figure out the difference between rifle bullets and pistol bullets as far as casting bullets. Does anyone use he Lee Sizing dies? What dia. would I be using? Trying to make it accurate.

[mooman76]

You shouldn't need to size the bullets. HB Minies are undersized to the bore and Maxies are sized when you drive them in.

[bedbugbilly]

Are you talking conical "bullets"? In a .45 rifle, why not just used a patched round ball? I don't have a .45 TC Harken but I do have a TC Seneca - I normally use a .440 round ball and sometimes a .437 round ball with a thicker patch for easy loading in the field - both shoot well out of it. If you are talking conical bullet, then a 45 REAL or similar should work just fine. The Lee sing dies are intended to be used for sizing cast bullets for loading in cartridges. I doubt you're going to find one in a size that would work in a .45 front stuffer.

I don't know what your experience is with shooting BP rifles but I would suggest doing some reading up on what is commonly used in BP rifles, pistols, etc. Needless to say . . . black powder only or black powder substitute - never smokeless. Unless you are playing with paper patched bullets, there should be no reason to have to use a "sizing die" as there are a number of different conical bullet designs - REAL, MaxiBall, etc. that were designed to be used in a muzzle loading rifle. Otherwise, the traditional soft lead round ball is really all a person needs to get started along with a patch the correct thickness that will work in your particular rifle.

[Edward]

I am trying to figure out What blocks I need for making 45 cal. bullets for a Thompson Center Hawken. Can't figure out the difference between rifle bullets and pistol bullets as far as casting bullets. Does anyone use he Lee Sizing dies? What dia.. would I be using? Trying to make it accurate.

Twist rate will tell what you will shoot best ,you could always try Lees R.E.A.L as they work in a 1-48 and passable on a slow twist .Lee molds are easy on the wallet and they shoot good .

[arcticap]

Casting bullets that you've never tried can be a bit of a gamble.
I wouldn't buy a sizing die until you actually cast some bullets, and then only if they are too hard to load.
I use a mallet, either plastic or wood, along with a starter to gently tap, tap tap conicals down the bore.
Even then, some conicals can be very stubborn.
So once the process is started, it must be completed until the bullet is seated all of the way down on top of the powder no matter what.
The bullet will always shoot out safely as long as it's seated properly.
Another option to consider is shooting sabots with bulk bullets.
MMP makes sabots that fit 2 different sizes of bullets and they are color coded for a specific range of bullet sizes.
Sabots can leave plastic residue if many are fired, but it's not too hard to swab out with a solvent if needed.
Bullets can have a greater sectional density than .45 balls for better penetration when hunting.
MMP makes two .45 sabots that will fit 2 different calibers of bullets, .355 - .357 and .40.
After you try a few, you can decide if you want to buy a similar weight and caliber bullet in bulk or to cast your own.
Hornady makes a .40 SST bullet with sabot that weighs 200 grains.
Hornady also sells 200 grain .40 XTP bullets in bulk which expand at handgun velocities.
You want to obtain certain accuracy with the first shot out of a cold, clean barrel.
You want to swab any plastic residue out of your barrel with solvent if necessary after every 2-3 shots or so, depending on your results and loading difficulty.
Here's links to the products that I've mentioned for your consideration.
This saves you from needing to size your bullets unless absolutely necessary.

MMP sabots: https://www.mmpsabots.com/store/mmp-standard-sabots/

Hornady .45 caliber SST bullet with sabot: https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ullet-20-count

Hornady 10mm - .40 caliber 200 grain XTP bullets: https://www.hornady.com/bullets/hand...0-gr-hp-xtp#!/

That's not even mentioning all of the other possible .357 & .40 bullets that you can shoot with sabots out of your .45.
Then you can always shoot patched round balls at the range for target and plinking recreation, and for quicker follow up shots when hunting.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[725]

kbbgood

Welcome aboard. Casting is fun and useful for feeding that 'ol smokepole. FYI, slow rates of twist (1 / 60, etc) are good for patched roundballs. Faster rates of twist (1 / 32, etc.) are good for conical shaped bullets. Not familiar with the .45 TC Hawkins, but T/C did most of their other guns with a 1 / 48 twist. 1 / 48 is a nice compromise and will shoot both RB's & conicals pretty good. Just starting out, there is a lot of experimentation you could do. RB's cast at .440 or .445 with different thicknesses of cloth patching material, or one of the conicals. As noted above, Lee "R.E.A.L." bullets are good as are the T/C Maxi-ball. Any should work very well. I'm not sure, but I think you can still get an owner's manual from whatever is left of Thompson Center. Fish around - I bet you can get one somewhere.

As the questions pop up, don't be shy. Ask anything here and somebody will help you out.

[Jeff Michel]

Any .45 caliber mini style bullet will work, no sizing required. .45 Maxi or a REAL bullet, engraves the rifling when you load, again no sizing required. All of the projectiles you cast will be straight soft lead, no tin, no wheel weights, nothing but lead. Your rifle, as noted prior is a 1:48 twist and shoots patched round balls and conicals both fairly well. Mine seems to prefer round balls, .440 ball (128 grain) and a .015 patch with 70 grains of FFG. I lube everything with T/C's "Bore Butter"

[Good Cheer]

the Lyman / Ideal #445599 minie is a pretty common find on ebay.
It might work well with a paper patch and sized to slide in the bore.
Or, it might work even better with a single wrap to reliably fly off when exiting the bore.
And by the way, distance is going to be your enemy with a .45 and 48" twist, just because the smaller the bore the relatively slower than 48" twist is.
Bullet geometry is going to mean a lot so don't give up if the first couple of molds tried don't shoot accurately enough.

Not that it has a dang thing to answer your question but I've been tempted to find a rusty ol' TC .45 and have it rebored to use the .476 diameter revolver molds. And by the way, the rifling in TC's is so shallow it might let you rebore to .46 bore, shoot 45-70 molds paper patched and sized with an off the shelf Lee sizer. I shoot a TC redone to have a .458 bore and love having a 45-90 that shoots caseless ammo.

[kbbgood]

I read an article years ago about the 45 cal. shot flatter then the 50 cal. but how far I don't know. I am just looking for the best and most accurate round I can shoot for my deer season. I live in Missouri in Mark Twain National Forest and come deer season you better hide cause the road hunters over run the area. But the extra black powder season comes later and I have it all to myself. Will the real bullets do the job I am looking for with this rifle?

[mooman76]

REALs should do well with it. An over powder wad sometimes helps with accuracy issues. You would have to experiment to see how hard you can push them. I don't know for sure but I would say the 45 doesn't shoot any flatter than the 50 and if by chance it does, it would be negligible. The 50 can take a heavier charge than the 45.

[OverMax]

40 cal pistol bullets shoot pretty decent when a sabo is used..
250 gr Lyman Maxi showed promise with a felt button wad underneath.
Tried a RCBS mini cast a long time ago. Horrible accuracy. Needed a faster twist to shoot those RCBS mini. 1-30 twist would be ideal.

I deer hunt with my 45 cal Hawken every year. Although I have a Green Mountain 45 cal quicky-twist barrel. I still prefer shooting the 45s {Round ball only} barrel~~ Best. Little 126 gr patched ball placed well "get's em every time" with very little felt recoil.

[Walks]

I have a T/C Hawken in .54 cal, I cast MAXI's from a T/C Mold. Lube with Bore Butter or Crisco if I'm out of Bore Butter.

I've tried .490 &.495 RB with either .010 & .020 patches.
From my accuracy tests way back when, I decided to stick to the MAXI's. I keep 40 lubed & ready in my garage fridge ready to go.

[triggerhappy243]

.452 dia. bullets are a good fit........... lubing, I can not help. Lyman makes a maxi-ball mold. I have one. I can cast up a batch if I can plan the time.

[koger]

I have 2 TC .45 Hawken barrels, both are 1-48 twist, and both are accurate with PRB and the old Lyman TC maxi ball, about 250 grs made out of soft lead! For hunting I use 75grs of 3fffg with a patched round ball, and 70 grs with a 250 gr maxi ball. The deer I have shot with the maxi slug, neck and shoulder knuckle shot have dropped at the shot, the PRB shot rib to rib and exited, both ran about 40-50 yds and piled up.

[kbbgood]

Does Lee have a Muzzleloader load book that covers their cast bullets? I know Lyman does but I don't guess it would cover Lee bullets in it.

[mooman76]

No Lee does not. There might be something in the latest Lyman casting handbook. It had some load data to include other brands of cast but I don't know about BP. Just work up your loads as usual 5 gr at a time. Start somewhere around caliber i.e. 45 cal start with 45 gr. You could even start lower if you like. You gun load manual sometimes has conical data.

[triggerhappy243]

this is what i have. It has it all.

[Walks]

TH243 is right,
the LYMAN is the BEST SOURCE for the BP shooter. Has casting & loading info for everything.
I have both 1st & 2nd editions.
You can find used copies on eBay or Amazon.

BUT ONE.

[RU shooter]

I have 2 TC .45 Hawken barrels, both are 1-48 twist, and both are accurate with PRB and the old Lyman TC maxi ball, about 250 grs made out of soft lead! For hunting I use 75grs of 3fffg with a patched round ball, and 70 grs with a 250 gr maxi ball. The deer I have shot with the maxi slug, neck and shoulder knuckle shot have dropped at the shot, the PRB shot rib to rib and exited, both ran about 40-50 yds and piled up.

Same experience my dad has had with his old 45 cal TC ,round ball shoots fine but he normally hunts with the 250 gr TC maxi ball he bought a TC aluminum mould and handles when he got the gun many years ago all he's ever needed and generally shoot tighter groups than the round ball loads do in his gun

[bob208]

the 1-48 twist is close to right in a .45 for round ball. bob hoyt cuts his .45 round ball barrels 1-52. so not that far off. a .440 ball with 70 gr. 3f will take a deer at 100 yards with no problem.