Taking a .30WCF hunting

[ak_rob]

Ok after reading everything I can on this decided to take my Great Grandfathers Winchester 94 hunting (made in 1898).
This is where I am now any pointers would be great.

Slugged barrel .3082
Bullet; Lee 309C170-FP with GC&PC 180gr BHN11 sized to.309.
Powder; IMR 3031 started at 25 grs. worked up to 27 grs. I stopped there didn't want to stress this gun. 27 had the smallest group.
Does anyone have a WAG on the velocity on these hoping for 1800+ I don't have a chrono. (26in barrel)

Is there anything I'm missing?

Thanks in advance

Rob

P.S. This is for XX-Larger game under 100 yards

[Rufus Krile]

Newest Lyman book shows a 173gr with that load of 3031 to be 2000fps... and is the maximum listed. A slightly older Lyman book shows 26.0gr to be at max and 1943fps. If it were mine, I'd back up to the 26.0gr and STILL watch for pressure signs. In hot weather you can get some surprising pressures and with a classic old gun like that, well, why take the chance. Maybe 25.0gr....

[richhodg66]

Yep. 1800 FPS will do nicely, why push it?

[ShooterAZ]

Personally, I'd take it back to the 25 grain load. The start load for that weight boolit is 21.5 gr. with Max at 27.

[Time Killer]

Same i would back it down on a gun like that. Too much history there to chance it.

[ak_rob]

Thanks all for the input. I was wondering about the load my load books are all over the map on 3031 in the 30-30. I don't have a load chart for 180gr , but with a
170gr.
Lyman has 21.5 start 27 gr. max
Nosler has 26gr. start 30gr.max
Hornady 26.4gr start to 28.6grs.

Makes it a little confusing

I know 150 gr factory loads are backing the primers out a little which tells me not enough pressure.

Case I fired laddering up have zero stretch so far

[Larry Gibson]

If you run that bullet over 34.5 gr LeveRevolution it will give you 200 - 300 more fps at 10,000+ less psi......might be worth a try. That load works for me in my 24" M94 with either the a Lee 170 gr or a Lyman 311041.

[Schreck5]

Larry's load recommendation works very well for me too. Will be this years deer load. In a Marlin 336. Bruce

[pls1911]

There's no reason to push beyond 1800-1900 fps.
All my bullets weighing 160-165-170 grains in a 30/30 get 25 grains of Reloader 7 or 3031. Yes there is a velocity difference but the deer at my ranges fall anyway. If I can hit a grapefruit, I can kill a deer or pig. It's easy on my old Marlins, my old ears, and my old shoulder, and hell on critters.
Point of aim is high shoulder, 3-4" below the silhouette line and in line with the leg... DRT if I do my part.

[texasnative46]

ak_rob,

You didn't ask for my advice BUT nonetheless, IF that nice antique rifle was mine I would load it with the REALLY OLD-SCHOOL .32-40WCF "standard factory" 165 grain PBLFN bullet at 1440FPS for ranges to 100M+ OR the "high speed load" 170 grain FN-GCCB at 1700FPS of the 1890-1910 era for hunting deer out to 250+M.
(I've, over the last 3 decades shot a lot of medium & small game with the 1440FPS "standard load" & it makes little noise, is downright cheap to load, doesn't kick much & KILLS CLEANLY on WT/similar-size game at the ranges that are commonplace here in the south TX brush country. = WT/foxes/coyotes/cats just aren't that hard to kill.)

Note: My "brother of the heart", who has forgotten more than I'll ever know about rifles/loads/shooting, worked up a PBCB "small-medium game" .32-40 "standard speed" load for BOTH my Model 760 in .300SAV & for my Model 760 "PU rifle" in .30-06 too, using red/green/blue dot shotgun powders.

just my OPINION, tex

[megasupermagnum]

Are you guys sure on that load data? I've ran the Lee 170 grain up to 29.5 grains with 3031, and I think that was barely over 2000 fps from my 20" barrel. I seated to the crimp groove and crimped. If you are scared to run 27 grains, I would think the gun wouldn't be safe at all.

Hopefully I'm corrected if wrong, but wasn't the original loading 30 grains with a 170 grain bullet? I swear someone told me that was why it was named 3031, 30 grains for 170 grain bullets, 31 grains for 150 grain bullets in 30-30 cartridge.

I'd say he is up around 1900+fps from a 26" barrel, and safe if the gun is safe.

[texasnative46]

megasupermagnum,

I AGREE. = I would NOT risk an antique/heirloom rifle with "hotter than necessary" loads, as you cannot kill a deer deader than dead.
In fact, where I hunt most often here in south TX, I would bet that that PBCB at 1200FPS would take WT cleanly, as in most areas of the brush you cannot SEE a deer beyond 20-50M & that's handgun range.

yours, tex

[kungfustyle]

Are you guys sure on that load data? I've ran the Lee 170 grain up to 29.5 grains with 3031, and I think that was barely over 2000 fps from my 20" barrel. I seated to the crimp groove and crimped. If you are scared to run 27 grains, I would think the gun wouldn't be safe at all.

Hopefully I'm corrected if wrong, but wasn't the original loading 30 grains with a 170 grain bullet? I swear someone told me that was why it was named 3031, 30 grains for 170 grain bullets, 31 grains for 150 grain bullets in 30-30 cartridge.

I'd say he is up around 1900+fps from a 26" barrel, and safe if the gun is safe.

From the Speer manual: 3031 gets its name from 31g under a 30 cal bullet aka 308, or something like that

[fastdadio]

I also shoot the Lee 170, pc/gc. in my 30-30 Trapper. The lyman #4 manual lists 28.5gr 3031 as max @ 32,500cup. I worked up loads from 22.5 up to 27 grs. My groups really tightened up in the 25-27 gr. loadings. What to do with an older rifle? I'd shoot light loads in the family heirloom and buy a modern rifle to drag through the woods. But that's just me.

[texasnative46]

fastdadio,

My opinion too.

yours, tex

[Crash_Corrigan]

I ran into a great deal a few years ago. An older gent & I got into a discussion about guns as he admired my Browning Mod 35 on my hip. I turned out that he had two guns for which he had no more use. He also had a triple lock Smith&Wesson in .44 Special that was perfect and he would keep it at his bedside for protection and he would not sell it. He did however part with a Baker SXS 12 gauge scattergun from the early 20's and a Winchester Model 94 rifle in 30.30 which was made in 1929. I stole them for a song and I have remorse from time to time about that.

The old 94 can still shoot decent groups with my pussycat Unique loading that get the boolit to the target at 1350 FPS. With that loading I get consistent groups of 5 inside 2 1/2" at 100 yds and a 5" group at 150. For a gun with almost all of the finish worn off and a dinged and scarred stock it shoots way above it's fighting weight. With a smooth sided pc'd boolit of 170 gr and a very small amount of Unique I have decent hunting round for my favorite game dog Mr. Wiley E. Coyote.

Yes loading and unloading is a PITA but necessary task that would be easier in a bolt gun or a single shot. However I like this old gun. I wish it could talk
about the conversations overheard since 1929. I would be very interested to hear from my ancestor a certain George Kesselmark who was a detective in the New York City Police Department from 1885 thru 1918. My grandfather Joseph P. Murtha came ashore at Ellis island in 1901. He and his family including one sibling girl arrived in New York just after having buried their Father at sea. My great grandmother arrived with only the name of a distant Cousin who had immigrated to the US many year earlier. She contacted him and he took them into his home and eventually married my widowed great grandmother.

George Kesslemark was a Dectective and as such earn a miserly salary. However the tips were good. During that time period the NYCPD did not enjoy a decent reputation as there was graft in every city agency including the Police Department. Det. Kesslemark had a dairy farm near High Falls, NY and he had a beautiful stone house placed on a finger of uplifted land with 9 Mature Sugar Maple trees in a line. These trees had been planted somewhere back in the 1820's and the home was built in 1857. Det. George usually took his family to the farm when the schools closed and kept them there until Labor Day.

At his farm his new wife was expected to play gracious host to his fellow cops and friends who were always visiting. My great grandmother over a few years of this backbreaking and constant stress told George that this was not working for her. To make her happy he bought a home on Sutton Place. This was the premier neighborhood in Manhattan. In other words Det. George was loaded! In 1910 my Grandfather Joseph Murtha somehow came up with $6,000 and he bought the farm from his Stepfather Det. George. By this time George was tired of playing farmer McDonald and moved his operation back to NYC.

My Grandfather then worked the farm with the help of some Polish Immigrants (emigrated legally) he made a go of it. He married and fathered 3 daughters. One of whom was my Mom. Uncle Joe (nickname for Grandfather Murtha) was surprised when prohibition was made law and he scrambled to find a way to turn a profit for himself. He then began a nefarious career of bootlegging booze downstate from Canada.

He also had a wide network of Bar and or Taverns in Ulster county to whom he sold his wares. He supported his family and built onto the farm over the years. When repeal came in the '30's he adroitly moved into bookmaking out of these same Bars and Taverns. He never missed a beat.

I remember the gun cases which I was not allowed to touch filled with long guns and pistols. These were simply wood and glass cases with a skeleton key etc. I would love to see those guns again and get a chance to examine them. A lot were single shot rifles of weird calibers (to me) like 219 Bee, 25-20 Win, 40-65 Win and many more that were not familiar to me. In the late 50's my Uncle Joe would take me fishing. WE went where he wanted not necessarily where the fish were hanging out. Once he had me firmly placed on shore he would disappear for 15 mins to an hour and return with a cold coke and a Slim Jim or two. Today I realize that he was picking up the bets at his stops nearby to where he sat me down. He was a mysterious man and kept on taking book until he couldn't drive anymore in the 70's. That 1929 '94 30WCF reminds of Uncle Joe long gone but not forgotten.