Loading for a match.

[flatsguide]

Chill, Don, that is really good shooting...it is really a good feeling when rifle, load and shooter get their act together.
DT, what is your load data for your COW fire form load? Thanks for that info on how you FL size your oversized brass.
Seeing where Don wrote about the ODG shooting .451 patched dia bullets I was wondering if that was into a .450 bore and can they be thumb seated a thousandth over bore dia.
At present I’m restocking my Browning so it will be a more comfortable rifle to shoot offhand the LOP on the stock rifle is 13 3/4 the new stock will be an even 13.
Thanks guys for all the good info...Just think in the future we’re going to be the ODG lol.
Regards, Richard

[Don McDowell]

Thanks Richard.
The original Sharps 45 caliber rifles were .450 bore and .457 groove. There was a difference between the target rifles and the sporting rifles . The target rifles were built specifically to shoot the long range paper patch bullets, basically what we would call today a blueprinted rifle. The sporting rifles were more designed to handle either patched or grease groove bullets, and not built to the tight tolerances of their target guns.
If you look at an original sharps catalog, they specifically say that their 45 2.1 rifles will handle either their ammunition or the 45 government. The specifications on the 45 government called for a 1.1 inch long bullet at .458 diameter.

[Lead pot]

Jim when it comes to my match rifles I make my own die sets to form my cases from basic and parent cases. The short die is for swaging down the base and I use that die in my bullet swaging press and like you do I made a flat top insert for the top of the ram to push the tight case into the flat bottom die so it swages the base down clear to the rim.
Note the reamers they are all 4/1.5 and 5/2 degree compounds. Note no 45 degree chamber ends The long reamers are for the .44-100 Rem Straight and the rest are .45/90, .44-75 Maynard and .40's.

Attachment 226320

[Keith]

I bought a Manson reamer for my 45-70. I believe its a Dan T design for PP . Its shooting better than I ever did with GG.
What is the difference with it to one of Brents designs?
I have a Green Mountain 16 twist 40 cal barrel here that I would like to build into a 40-65 dedicated PP as well.
I have read 14 twist is better but I have this one anyway.
What are the reamers available for this and which Buffalo mold do others use.?
I was using the Jim 446-545 but have just changed to the 446-525 with better results. I started with a 443 but with my paper it was a bit loose so bought the 446 and made a push through sizer to bring it down. It gives me more options.
I am using RP brass for the 45-70 , not sizing but had to trim to 1.90 as the mouth was turning in. Not having problems with stuck cases though

[rfd]

... I am using RP brass for the 45-70 , not sizing but had to trim to 1.90 as the mouth was turning in. Not having problems with stuck cases though

curious if you are annealing and using a .060" LDPE wad?

[Keith]

No on annealing and yes on the wad.
Once its fireformed apart from cutting a bevel on the mouth I dont touch them again. Just load , shoot , tumble clean, reload.

[rfd]

No on annealing and yes on the wad.
Once its fireformed apart from cutting a bevel on the mouth I dont touch them again. Just load , shoot , tumble clean, reload.

thanx for the scoop. i think the dan-t and brent might be similar if not the same ... ?

some of us are having the sticky fired case issue and trying to figure out why.

if i may, sir ...

what rifle action type?
brass brand?
do you need to reform new brass to fit the chamber before loading?
are these PPB full loads?
and how much compression?

appreciate any input, cheers.

[Gunlaker]

I have a few rifles with Dan's PP chambers including .45-70 like Keith's. I don't remember ever having cases stick. I use 0.060" poly wads and often anneal.

Dan's chamber design is quite different than Brent's.

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

RFD, I guess I could give my input on your other questions.

-what rifle action type? ( 1874 Sharps & 1885 Winchester ).

-brass brand? ( Starline ).

-do you need to reform new brass to fit the chamber before loading? ( I size them and squeeze them down more with a taper crimp die or a .45 Colt die. Then load and shoot like normal. )

are these PPB full loads? ( case full to within 0.060" from case mouth. )

and how much compression? ( about 0.115" which is the seating depth I use for my rifles with Dan's chambers ).

Chris.

[rfd]

thank you, chris.

[Lead pot]

DT used several different chamber drawings. I have a lot of his prints and some used by others rifles I see for sale now and then.
For a what he called a match chamber PP he used a .474" neck wall with a .300" straight cylinder neck with some freeborn into a 25 degree transition.
For the GG match chambers he used .482" with freeborn and a .505 base diameter. I call that a pretty full bodied chamber for a match chamber.

[Gunlaker]

Kurt, you are close for the PP reamer specs except there is no freebore. He also had a .45-2.4" reamer spec for groove diameter PP bullets which had freebore.

Chris.

[Lead pot]

Your right Chris. I just looked at some drawings of his and one of the .45-70 reamers has no freebore with the 474" neck.
A .45-90 Match reamer of his has a 482" neck with .400" cylinder neck leading into a 25 degree transition with .375" long freebore .458" diameter to the 3 degree lead.

[flatsguide]

Brent’s reamer is .475 at the neck and is .400 long. Brent states it is specifically for Starline brass.
What is a good Cream of Wheat fire form load for my .45-70 ?
Just finished my shorter butt stock...sure feels good.
Thanks Richard

[Keith]

thanx for the scoop. i think the dan-t and brent might be similar if not the same ... ?

some of us are having the sticky fired case issue and trying to figure out why.

if i may, sir ...

what rifle action type?
brass brand?
do you need to reform new brass to fit the chamber before loading?
are these PPB full loads?
and how much compression?

appreciate any input, cheers.

Its an old Navy Arm Rolling Block that was 45.70 for greasers that I rechambered with the PP reamer. The brass is RP that I had for the old chamber so full length sized it and fireformed.I havnt used new brass yet.
I load with 85 grns of 2F Swiss through a drop tube that comes to around the .060 from the mouth, thumb in the poly then compress to .120 from the mouth but still experimenting with that. I am getting the odd paper ring.
Chris, what length do you trim to with your DanT chamber?

Keith

[Gunlaker]

Richard I would just fireform them with a regular load. If you look at this link and scroll to the photo at the bottom you can see how well one of my .45-70's shot with new brass.

http://www.bcsingleshot.com/DansStuf...aperPatch.html

Keith I am using 2.092" for my trim length. If you have the reamer print ( it's also on my web site if you need it ) you can see that Dan shortened it because he was working with short Winchester brass. Actually I'd be happier if that wasn't done as all of my brass would be fine at 2.1". I have never noticed paper rings in my .45-70's, but have once at a match in the .45-2.4" chamber ( not the freebore one, but the one that is identical to the .45-70 one, but longer ). The problem in mine was that some of my brass was a touch short.

Chris.

[flatsguide]

Chris, thank you. Very interesting info, thanks. Those MOA and sub MOA groups that are depicted, I wonder if 5hey are repeatable.
Regards, Richard

[Keith]

Chris, Thanks for that. I have noticed my Lyman Case trimmer does seem give variations in length. I do have some short cases.
Keith

[country gent]

On the collet type trimmers rim dia and torque the collet is tightend to both can affect length. the collet not only closes farther on the is but set farther back in the sleeve. Tightness also affect the lyman universal case holder some. anther is the fit of the pilot used in the case mouth

[Gunlaker]

Chris, thank you. Very interesting info, thanks. Those MOA and sub MOA groups that are depicted, I wonder if 5hey are repeatable.
Regards, Richard

Richard none of them are quite minute of angle, but many are getting close to that in vertical. I'd say those groups are not really atypical if I'm having a decent day (i.e. not pulling shots) and wind/light conditions are good. I have shot worse groups though for sure.

Interestingly the one that holds vertical best is my .45-2.6" rifle. I don't really get much different velocity over the 2.4" case but I use Swiss Fg powder. The rifle weighs in at exactly 15 lbs so is actually easier to shoot well than the rifle with the .45-2.4" case which only weighs 12lbs 10oz.

Chris.