Starting a new Remington Rolling Block project

[THerbert]

I've had an action from a .43 Spanish rifle that I picked up several years ago sitting on my bench, and I stare at it and try to decide what to do with it. Finally, I've made the decision -- I've always wanted a rifle in one of the famous African safari calibers, but there's no way I'm going to afford a double, and although I like bolt actions, I like single shots more. So, I've decided to use the roller action to build a rifle in one of the big cartridges. I've decided on .416 Rigby, as it seems to be the one for which brass and dies are most easily available.

The first step is doing the cleanup on the action, and polishing the exterior, then dropping it off at Lohman's to be color case hardened. As you might expect, after 100+ years, all the colors, if it ever had any, have turned to a uniform gray. I'll have them do the receiver and trigger guard, and I'll blue the breech block, hammer, screws, pivot pins and button myself. Most of the screw slots are bunged up, so I'll probably order new replacements from Rolling Block Parts.

I have no desire to shoot full-power loads, and I'll be shooting cast boolits in it, of course. I'm not a hunter, just a shooter.

The project will be done in stages, as I can afford it, and I'll do some of it myself, like the wood work. I'm planning on a 30-32" octagonal barrel, and some nice wood.

Comments, suggestions and questions are welcome. Tonight, after I pull the parts out of the Evapo Rust, I'll post some pictures for a "before" series.

[AZ Pete]

just my humble opinion, but I would restrict the choice of cartridge to those that a roller can safely handle. You are proposing to chamber a black,powder action in a smokeless powder cartridge. While in your hands, shooting cast at reduced loads, this may be fine....not necessarily good for a subsequent owner, that tries out some factory loads.

For me, I would shop the black powder cartridges for this rolling block.



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[elk hunter]

Not to say it can't or shouldn't be done but, you should be aware that you will not, in all likelihood, be the last owner. The rolling block, while a very nice action, is not very strong. The 416 Rigby operates at over 40,000 lbs per square inch and if someone, some time, some how put a factory level load in it the action would surly fail. Another thing to consider is that your action was designed to use rimmed cases, the Rigby is a rebated rimless case that will make extraction very problematic. Why not consider one of the earlier black powder calibers, the English used a number of them, i.e. 450 BPE, 500-450 BPE or the 500 BPE, with great success in India and Africa.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[THerbert]

I'm certainly willing to look at other cartridges, as long as I can get brass and dies.

I looked at the rim, and it doesn't appear to be rebated, based on this diagram: http://ammoguide.com/?catid=151. Remington made factory rolling blocks in 7x57mm for Argentina, I think (didn't look it up, working from memory), which is a rimless cartridge of about the same pressure levels, but it's a smaller cartridge, of course, which would give thicker chamber walls. That was what I based my decision on.

I'll do some more looking.

[MOA]

Ok, here's my two cents worth. I'd go with a Winchester 50-90 chambering. Brass not hard to get. Can even trim down 50-140, 50-120,50-110 if needed. The 50-90 is short enough not to have issues with the BB. And, should be safe pressure wise too.

Do you happen to know what # Remington roller action you have? That might play a role in what options you have available for safe and appropriate BP cartridge selection. Just thinking......Or, easier yet, go with Winchester 50-70.

[Nobade]

Keep in mind that you have to be able to load it also. Rollers are limited in how long a case they'll take. Look at what the originals were chambered for, it will give you some guidelines.

[THerbert]

Do you happen to know what # Remington roller action you have? That might play a role in what options you have available for safe and appropriate BP cartridge selection. Just thinking......

It's a #1 Military action -- it has thicker side walls than the #1 sporting action that was sold to the civilian market.

[MOA]

I would think that since you will not be hunting with this project rifle, and you plan on shooting targets, some thought as to how much pounding your shoulder will be repeatedly exposed to via caliber chosen. To download BP, wad spacers will be needed to keep any air space between the end of powder and face of boolit base. Even a 50-70 case is only going to allow around maybe 55-60 grain even when compressed by volume in it due to the modern thicker case walls than the original BP cases of the day. Win 50-90 will offer the ability of 450 to 500 grain boolit, and the length of case to download black powder top with hard cards and still have room for boolit.

[THerbert]

I have another RB in 50-70, and I shoot it with 60 grains of FFg in a Starline case, under a .030" fiber wad and the Lee 450 grain bullet. It's very pleasant to shoot. It's the original rainbow trajectory, in fact when I finished putting it together last year, I added a Marble tang sight, and the sight post isn't tall enough to get it on target at 100 yards! I have to order a taller one.

The purpose of this wasn't just to build the rifle, but to build a rifle in one of the old English safari calibers. I may have to find an alternative way to go about it.

[John Taylor]

I'm certainly willing to look at other cartridges, as long as I can get brass and dies.

I looked at the rim, and it doesn't appear to be rebated, based on this diagram: http://ammoguide.com/?catid=151. Remington made factory rolling blocks in 7x57mm for Argentina, I think (didn't look it up, working from memory), which is a rimless cartridge of about the same pressure levels, but it's a smaller cartridge, of course, which would give thicker chamber walls. That was what I based my decision on.

I'll do some more looking.

The 7X57 was in a #5 action which came out in 1897 and was a bit stronger than the older black powder action. Some of the older actions will not except a large cartridge, they hang up on the hammer or breach block if they are to long and have a large diameter.

[TNsailorman]

Read P.O.Ackley blowup tests on different actions. His results found the rem. roller to be stronger than quite a few modern actions. I don’t have access to those tests handy but if my memory is correct, the rolling block and the Jap type 38 we’re going strong after the Mauser 98 and 1903 had failed. The roller is a really strong action. james

[texasnative46]

THerbert,

Have you considered the .375 Flanged Nitro Express, 2.5", which was a favorite combination gun cartridge of Elmer Keith & quite suitable for game of elk & moose size?? = Cases are rimmed & fairly easily made from .405WCF.

yours, tex

[MOA]

THerbert,

Have you considered the .375 Flanged Nitro Express, 2.5", which was a favorite combination gun cartridge of Elmer Keith & quite suitable for game of elk & moose size?? = Cases are rimmed & fairly easily made from .405WCF.

yours, tex

What Tex says is a great choice too, was just looking at it in Cartridges of the World, along with the 450/400 2-3/8-inch BPE

[texasnative46]

MOA,

Can you think of an "even reasonably available" case that can be reformed into .450/400 NEBP??
(The .450/400 was a favorite of COL Jim Corbett for tiger/leopard.)

yours, tex

[MOA]

Well Tex, I'm not positive, but wouldn't it be possible to use the Hornady 450/400 NE 3" for a case to reform into the 2-3/8"??

[MT Chambers]

The most common really big cartridge chambered safely in a RB is the 50/90 Sharps loaded with real Black Powder, I would not go for anything of higher pressure in an old RB. Lonestar used to chamber them back in the day and I believe they were used on the Buf. plains(not L.S. guns of course).

[texasnative46]

MOA,

Frankly, I'm not near my library & just can't remember. - MAYBE is the best that I can do for now.

yours, tex

[MOA]

Most likely Huntington or maybe CH4 can make the dies, either way dies are going to be the real expense in this caliber range. But this is where the African cartridges usually lead to $$$$$$. I made sure when i got my 400 Jeffery and the 9.3x74R I got plenty of brass all at the same time.

[texasnative46]

MOA,

When you mention 9.3x74 OR 9.3x62mm, you're singing my favorite tunes.
(I once had, until my condo was robbed, a drilling with 9.3x73 on the bottom.)

These days, the 9.3x62mm is my "go to" rifle, if the game is larger than deer.

yours, tex

[M-Tecs]

http://assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1317952094/18

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Block-strenght