and yes... i know some do, but...when they do it's always a .40 s&w / 10mm .
and you always have to use the stupid "moon clips" or half moon clips.
ruger provides EXTRA cylinders for their .45 colt / .45acp and for their .38/357 / 9mm single actions.
and a few others!
why not the .40?
I would be interested in one.
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I'd like a extra cylinder for 40 S&W for my Uberti SAA clone in 38-40. 40 S&W brass is as common as dirt at law enforcement ranges and has little value. I could use the same bullets, (.402" Magma 180 gr. rnfp), with smaller powder charges for some really cheap plinking.
The only manufacturer I know of that builds a 40 S&W revolver that doesn't require moon clips is Charter Arms in their pitbull.Originally Posted by mozeppa
https://charterfirearms.com/collecti...matte-standard
ruger did a special run of single actions for California hiway patrol. shot one last month.
smith did the646. A k frame with a alloy cylinder. I had one. Should have held on to it. It shot real well.
Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 08-23-2018 at 09:17 AM.
Well, let's see.
Ruger did build some Vaqueros in 40 S&W.
Buckeye Sports had a special run of convertibles years ago,, in 38-40 & 10mm.
And, as noted,, some guns have been made in DA to accept 40 S&W or 10mm.
And, of course,, as mentioned,, so does Charter Arms.
But you asked the "Why?" question.
The answer is simple.
They are all in business to make money. They can not make money if a product doesn't sell. And to make the profit margin they need to sell a LOT of guns. As such,,, they look at the potential market & see if it will support a certain type of firearm.
The Vaquero in 40 S&W I own,, sat in a gun shop for over 3 months,, until the dealer discounted it to me.
The S&W model 646 in 40 S&W,, (and yes,, it uses moon clips,) was in an auction, I wanted it,, but got outbid. The buyer THOUGHT he could sell it & make money. A few months later,, I was able to buy it at a LOSS to him,, as nobody wanted his high asking price.
And now,, we have the current Ruger GP-100 in 10mm,, that can also shoot 40 S&W.
But yes,, moon clips are required as the caliber headspaces off the case mouth,, not the rim.
But the simple answer is SLOW SALES,,, as evidenced by past endeavors.
To many manufacturers,, you need to sell several thousand of a certain model to just break even on costs,, depending upon the amount of expense in development. Granted,, development costs have been lowered in this day & age of computers & many well established manufacturing processes,,, but there is still a cost factor.
While Ruger enjoys decent sales of their convertible SA revolvers,, using the two cylinder sale method,, MANY, MANY spare cylinders are never shot. Look at all of the NIB .22 mag cylinders you can see for sale all the time on sleezbay or other gun sites. It has been going on since the introduction of that model. And it's likely the most popular convertible sold by Ruger.
The others,, 9mm & 357,, as well as 45 acp & 45 Colt,,, enjoy popularity because ammo is often CHEAPER,, making it attractive for one or the other to more people.
But look at the 9mm DA revolvers,,, yes,, many have been offered,, but SLOW SALES have driven them into a niche market. And the 9mm DA's were developed as a LEO backup concept gun.
The 40 S&W is a decent caliber & many have used it for competition, as well as a self defense caliber of choice.
But,, todays SELLING market is in semi-autos,, so that's what they are made in.
Now,, you mention moon clips. I too USED to consider clips as a PIA & outdated etc.
I even bought a Ruger Speed-Six in 9mm that used 1/2 moons,, MOSTLY as a collectable & curio piece. I once won a bet with a guy who challenged me saying nobody made any 9mm revolvers. I have shot it,,, & yet,, it's mostly sits in the safe.
And I saw folks at USPSA matches,, shooting a 45 acp S&W revolver in competition,,, (think of Jerry Miculek, & others,) and kinda wondered why. Yet,,, I like revolver shooting,, and when the S&W 646 came along at a fair price,,, I bought it. Since then,, I've added a S&W in 45 acp,, and the Ruger GP-100 in 10mm.
Moons are NOT the problem I THOUGHT they'd be. In fact,,, quite the opposite. I shoot competition, (USPSA) and I get all my brass back, easy to pick up,, as compared to the auto shuckers, and reloading is a lot quicker & smoother than I expected. I actually have found that moon clips make a very convenient way to carry spare ammo. Moon clips are much cheaper than magazines for the bottom feeders. I buy an 8 pk of moons for about $10 (or less, depending upon which gun,) and that's carrying 48 rounds of ammo. If you do the math,, a 15 round magazine requires 3 of them to feed a similar amount of ammo. Three magazines at $20-$35 each average,,, is much more expensive. Even if you add in the moon loading tool,,, which is about $40 in the Dillon catalog,, is still comes out much cheaper,, especially if you have more than 8 clips.
And some folks cuss moons saying they get bent. Well, as a competitor,, I can say I've had moons stepped on & bent. Yet,, I have taken mine home,, used a flat anvil, a ball peen hammer, and flattened them out,, to where they work fine AND go back into use in competition.
So,, instead of wondering why a manufacturer doesn't make your pet idea of a firearm,, (and not just a DA in 40 S&W w/o moons, ) look at the big picture. Money is required for them to stay in business,, and I for one appreciate that they are still in business, and making stuff we can enjoy. And if they offer something close to what you want,, then,, you can either adapt to what's offered,, or spend the money to have a custom gun done.
And yes,, some custom gunsmiths have & will build a special cylinder for a DA revolver in your desired caliber. Such as a dedicated 40 S&W cylinder, w/o the need for moon clips,,, for a gun such as the GP-100. it's just you that has to incur the expense of having what you desire.
I for one like to shoot more & spend less on my guns,, (unless I see the necessities,) so I use moon clips & shoot the heck out of my DA revolvers in 40 S&W.
Making a dedicated 40 S&W revolver is kind of silly if the gun can handle the pressure of 10MM. Like contender1 mentioned, I don't mind moonclips at all. I can load up the moonclips as quickly as I can load a magazine, it's much easier to clean up the brass at the range, I routinely bring 20 loaded moonclips to the range for my S&W 929. That's 160 rounds without fiddling around with loading a magazine.
My Blackhawk 10MM/40 SW 6.5" is FANTASTIC. I use the Lyman 401043 and 401654 at the Lyman 4th Ed CB HB spec'd COAL's (won't stand much more length) however the rounds feed perfectly in a Delta Elite and G22. Bollits sized .401 push thru the throats of both cylinders with "feather-light" pressure. Accuracy is outstanding with both 10mm and 40 SW. I was so pleased with my Blackhawk 45 LC/45 ACP the 10/40 was a no brainer for me.
Ruger Blackhawk convertibles in 10mm and 40S&W are still being made.
Personally I like the moon clips, or half moon clips.
Ruger GP100 Match 10 mm will also handle the .40 if you use full moon clips: Per American Rifleman: The cartridge case of the .40 S&W semi-auto pistol round shares the same external dimensions as the 10 mm with the exception of being 0.142" shorter. This means the revolver can be safely fired with the softer shooting .40 S&W but two things should be kept in mind. First, .40 S&W cartridges must be supported by full-moon clips. Otherwise they will slip down into the chambers and not fire. Secondly, it's important to thoroughly scrub out each of the cylinder's chambers after shooting .40 S&W before switching back to 10 mm to avoid the longer cartridge cases sticking in the chambers.
no market . why do think .41 mag. is almost dead? no one is buying them in volume . the only wheel guns are the old standard or the uber magnums. I joined the nra amdm got the shooting mag, so far 7 issues and all had buck Rodgers knock offs on the cover and most of the inside.
Post #7, by contender1, very comprehensive, well written and thought out. Thanks for posting.
My thoughts: Half moon and full moon clips are a real asset for all of the reasons contender1 mentioned. I have an S&W Mountain Gun in .45 ACP that really shines. Uses the clips, fast to reload, can carry plenty of ammo that isn't loose in the pocket.
The logic behind the original question kind of escapes me. Why would someone turn their back on a revolver that offers the additional ability to shoot 10mm ? You never have to use 10mm, but the option of loading a more powerful cartridge should the necessity or desire come about is a pretty attractive feature. My choice would be one that could use both cartridges over any that used only one.
John Taylor rebarrelled and rechambered a couple Ruger Blackhawk .357s to .40 cal. for me and a hunting buddy.
Attachment 225991
The .40 S&W in a 5" revolver has a useful velocity increase over an autopistol of the same barrel length because the length of the cylinder improves the expansion ratio and you gain more for the additional bullet travel than you lose through the cylinder gap.
My buddy Mike and I sent off .357/9mm convertibles for rebarreling and recylindering because we wanted a packing pistol of caliber which started with a "4" and the .40 S&W cylinder was simply to have a cylinder to exploit common and cheap ammo and free range brass available in that caliber. The 9mm cylinder is roughed with a .401" chucking reamer from McMaster-Carr and finish chambered with an ordinary .40 S&W reamer.
We rechambered our .357 cylinders to 10x25mm Rimmed, which is a wildcat based on necking down Starline .44 Russian cases, giving us a traditional-looking rimmed case having capacity slightly greater than the 10mm Auto, but suited for loading blunt, heavy bullets for revolver use.
Anybody wanting full skinny on that round PM me, I'm happy to share. If you ask "why" the answer is because we wanted to shoot either black powder or smokeless and it seemed a good idea at the time. We are very happy with the result and John is now building a rook rifle to shoot the 10x25R cartridge.
Attachment 226035
Last edited by Outpost75; 08-24-2018 at 10:35 AM.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Taurus made/makes a .40S&W snubnose. If it was a 4" I'd try one.
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Actually, that’s an L-frame and Ti cylinder. I’d love to get my hands on one but prices start at $1,600 and go north.smith did the
It would make an awesome IDPA gun.
Ruger is building a GP100 10mm that’ll take .40.
The OP was discussing the lack of options in a DA revolver from what I saw. And,, my response was mostly about that. Yes,,, Ruger has offered some convertible cylinder guns,, but to do so in DA revolvers isn't cost feasible to manufacturers.
Jtarm,,, I also own a S&W 646 like the one pictured. I use mine in USPSA competition,, even though it's a 6 shot & most revolver shooters are now using the 8 shot S&W's. (Psst,,, I got mine for $750,, which was less than the original bidder gave for it at auction!)
I think with all the law enforcement agencies that are fleeing from the .40S&W like it's a piece of stinky cheese, we're not likely to see a great deal more branching out for the round.
Then again, if you stuck a rim on the .40S&W and built a dedicated length cylinder and frame for it, I would then regard the round as perhaps having found it's potential.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
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