Filler in 45/70

[Yooper003]

I placed this over in hunting forum & got a few answers but I guess I am too dumb to understand. So I will ask it as plain as I can. Should I use a filler in my cast boolit loads for 45/70' when using Unique or Red Dot power? If you would recommend using a filler, what kind & how do you use it?

[webfoot10]

Just put a small piece of toilet paper or a pinch of dracon pillow
stuffing on top of powder, just enough to hold the powder down
on the primer. It's just to keep the powder from spreading out
on the bottom of the case and maybe causing a SEE in the case
upon firing. I've shot 45/70 without filler, but I seem to get better
groups with filler. If you use the toilet paper you will have a bit of
confetti upon firing, won't hurt a thing. So load up and have fun.
webfoot10

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t use any filler with my .45-70 rounds. I only shoot 400 and 500 grain boolits. If you’re shooting 300 grains it could leave you with that much more space. Someone once told me to use magnum primers when not all of my powder was burning. I never tried it, because I solved the problem by crimping tighter.

Good luck! The .45-70 has always been a fun round for me to shoot. I also consider it one of the easier rounds to load.

[Tatume]

I neither use nor recommend fillers. Nor do I use Red Dot. Unique will do fine without fillers.

[Nobade]

No fillers with easily ignited high nitro powder or you'll be sorry. Plus those two light off so easy there's nothing to be gained by doing so.

[webfoot10]

I neither use nor recommend fillers. Nor do I use Red Dot. Unique will do fine without fillers.

Watched a guy shoot a trapdoor carbine with 11grs Unique powder. Dropped the loaded
round in and fired. The powder moved down on the bullet in the case when tipped down
for loading, upon firing blew the breech block out of the gun. With the 400 gr paper patched
bullet being oversize and crimped, he had created a bore obstruction, the charge upon firing
blew out the case and the breechblock. You gotta keep the powder on the primer.

[Tom W.]

Can't say about a 45/70, but when shooting mouse fart loads in my 30/30 or 30-06 w/ Red Dot or Bullseye I won't use a filler.

[Tatume]

Watched a guy shoot a trapdoor carbine with 11grs Unique powder. Dropped the loaded round in and fired. The powder moved down on the bullet in the case when tipped down for loading, upon firing blew the breech block out of the gun. With the 400 gr paper patched bullet being oversize and crimped, he had created a bore obstruction, the charge upon firing blew out the case and the breechblock. You gotta keep the powder on the primer.

Couldn't have been anything else huh?

[webfoot10]

Couldn't have been anything else huh?

What do you think would have caused it? Wasn't a double charge as he weights
all his loads, and he was using new winchester brass. Had to be the oversize
bullets and the heavy crimp. I use the same load, but with a filler and I use a
taper crimp. His trapdoor was the H&R repro so I don't think it was any problem
with the gun. His gun fired my loads just fine, Didn't have any problems till he used
his loads, The only differance was the filler and the heavy crimp. This guy is stickler
for accurate reloading. So what do you think caused the blow up?

[Nobade]

"Oversized paper patched bullet and crimped". It really sounds like he doesn't know what he's doing.

[gwpercle]

Couldn't have been anything else huh?

Certainly not a double charge of powder...no way that can happen .

It happens a lot easier than you think and most will swear it's the magical "detonation" effect of the powder not being against the primer.

Better method is tip the gun up just before firing, powder is near primer and no need for a filler.
Gary

[dondiego]

You can easily double charge a case even with a couple of meticulously weighed charges. Use a flashlight or a dowel with a witness mark.

[Tatume]

Just put a small piece of toilet paper or a pinch of dracon pillow stuffing on top of powder, just enough to hold the powder down on the primer.

This is likely to cause a ringed chamber.

[1Hawkeye]

Filler can cause a ringed chamber in a .45-70 and you don't need it when using unique. As for the H&R trapdoor coming open when fired with unique it could have been one of the bad ones. A friend of mind who had a shop warned me about them back in the day. It seems H&R had some qc issues with the trapdoors back then such as undersized bores and opening when fired.

[Larry Gibson]

My comments are posted on the thread OP posted on the Hunting Forum.

[scattershot]

I use a tuft of Dacron. About a 1” square, fluffed up and lightly inserted with a pencil or something similar.

[webfoot10]

I use a tuft of Dacron. About a 1” square, fluffed up and lightly inserted with a pencil or something similar.

That's all I do when loading the 45/70 with Unique. The guy that had his gun blow up
only loads with the Lee powder dippers and loads one case at a time, seating the
bullet and crimping, before going to the next case. Been loading for 50 yrs. So I guess
he knows what he's doing. The loaded cases fit the chamber of his rifle fine, so bullets
were not to big. The H&R trapdoor had an 1888 breechblock installed because of the
breech coming open on the original H&R's both rifle and carbines. I still think he had
the bullets crimped too tight. He also slugged the barrel dia at .458 and patched 2 thou
over so I don't think that was the problem. Everybody has their opinion on what happened,
Guess we will never know for sure.

[44Blam]

I am off topic here, but seems like just loading normal rifle powder like varget will keep you from blowing up your gun because it fills the case before you hit a max charge. Even something like 4198 or 4895 pretty much fill up a case and can be backed down enough to not knock out your fillings but still fill the case pretty full. And then if you want to shoot lighter rounds, trailboss will fill the case and will be very mild... Then you don't have to worry about SEEs or ring around the chamber or any of the other craziness that can happen.

[Nobade]

I am off topic here, but seems like just loading normal rifle powder like varget will keep you from blowing up your gun because it fills the case before you hit a max charge. Even something like 4198 or 4895 pretty much fill up a case and can be backed down enough to not knock out your fillings but still fill the case pretty full. And then if you want to shoot lighter rounds, trailboss will fill the case and will be very mild... Then you don't have to worry about SEEs or ring around the chamber or any of the other craziness that can happen.

Yeah there is that...but it makes too much sense.

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, it does "make sense"......on paper.....

However, in reality the medium burners like Varget and H4895 and even H4198 when loaded down to level1 & 2 velocities with 400 gr bullets and lighter still leave too much empty space under the bullet. Those powders, w/o a Dacron filler, do no burn efficiently and leave a lot of debris in the action.....not to mention that accuracy sucks unless care is take to position the powder for each shot......even then that sometimes doesn't work.

Trailboss is an alternative for lighter loads but the OP asked about using a filler with Red Dot or Unique. MY answer is no with Red Dot and sometimes with Unique. It is explained in my answer on the Hunting Forum (same thread question) and in the Sticky noted there.