Newbie questions; 18 BHN recipe + some other info.

[OFFSHORE]

Hello. This is my first post, but I'm a longtime lurker. I have shot cast bullets for a number of years mostly for the nostalgia more so than their performance. . .I have come to learn otherwise. I mostly shoot .44 and .45 caliber hardcast bullets that I purchase commercially and load myself. This past March I had a custom MGM barrel made for my T/C Encore in .445 Super Mag. This cartridge in the T/C platform has exceeded my expectations in long range accuracy. . .3 1/2" groups at 150 yards using 315 grain cast bullets! I have learned a lot searching for load data for the 445SM and it has really peaked my interest in making my own cast bullets for mainly hunting. Now for about the last six weeks I've been plundering around the Net trying to make a list of the best equipment I could afford towards this endeavor. Last weekend I went to an estate sale that had various outdoor gear for sale. In a homemade wood crate I spotted what looked to be a press, upon further inspection it turned out to be a Magma Star lube sizer press with heater plate - the Cadillac of presses! Also in the crate were .451 dies and .357 dies, Lyman 20# electric furnace, Lyman 4-cavity molds for each, ladles, thermometer and other odds-n-ends. . .near everything I needed! I asked the guys what they wanted for the crate and they quickly replied $150.00 but, there is a hitch. . .you have to take the boxes of lead too that are in the back barn. I went back there and to my surprise there were 4, 40mm ammo cans of wheel weights and 1 1/2, 5 gal. pals of 1 lb ingots! I quickly gave the men their money and pulled my truck around and loaded things up. So, between what I have been researching and the goodies I have to work with now has led me to a few questions. I need the knowledge of this Forum - please.

1. I have ordered various styles/weights of bullets in 15 BHN to 22 BHN and it seems all of the four calibers I load for like a 16 to 18 BHN. What recipe with all the COWW available would you recommend to achieve the BHN I need? Do I need to buy linotype. . .water quenching or air dry or heat treat?

2. Should or could I melt all the COWW into ingots and at a later date mix the recipe or should I wait and do it all at once? Will multiple melts be bad for the COWW composition? I've also read about a shelf life in regards to bullets getting softer in years time. . .true/false?

3. Fluxing - if I melt the COWW now into ingots, should I flux then or do it when I make the desired BHN recipe or when I'm actually casting bullets?

4. Is there any "must have" books out there that the Forum recommends for the novice?

I must apologize for being so long winded, I tried the search function, but got overwhelmed - LOL. Any and all positive advice wold be greatly appreciated. I have already been in touch with "Lathesmith" for various items for my press. . .good fella. Thank you for your time.

[Hossfly]

Welcome to the forum OFFSHORE. Wow what a find. I think i would take the 1 lb. ingots and try finding what BHN they are, with a hardness tester or pencil set, will get you close. I’m a novice at this myself, but that’s where I would start. I’m sure you will get a lot of good advice here, there is about a million years of experience here. I had to read your post twice as I couldn’t believe any one could be that lucky. After you find out what you have in those ingots then you can adjust with adding other metals to get what you want. Good luck and enjoy the ride.

[Dunkem]

From what I've read, the general consensus is that air cooled COWW come in around 11-12bhn. Water dropping brings them up to the high teens-low 20's. I would melt them, skim the clips and dirt, flux a couple times with sawdust, then reduce the oxides back in a final time with wax. Finally pour and mark ingots for later use. I don't think a few re-melts will cause to much harm if you decide to change the alloy later, so long as your careful to not skim the skin of antimony and/or tin floating on top, rather reduce it back in with wax. Also download the alloy calculator available on this forum, if you haven't yet. It's an irreplaceable tool to get you close to the mix you desire.

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[OFFSHORE]

From what I've read, the general consensus is that air cooled COWW come in around 11-12bhn. Water dropping brings them up to the high teens-low 20's. I would melt them, skim the clips and dirt, flux a couple times with sawdust, then reduce the oxides back in a final time with wax. Finally pour and mark ingots for later use. I don't think a few re-melts will cause to much harm if you decide to change the alloy later, so long as your careful to not skim the skin of antimony and/or tin floating on top, rather reduce it back in with wax. Also download the alloy calculator available on this forum, if you haven't yet. It's an irreplaceable tool to get you close to the mix you desire.

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That sounds perfect and simple enough. What does the wax do. . .how much and what kind? Putting the wax in molten lead will not turn my melting pot fish cooker into a spewing Mt. St. Helens??? Thanks for addressing the question on turning the WW into ingots. . .for whatever reason I'm really wanting to melt them down and make clean bullet material. . .OCD I guess - LOL.

[jsizemore]

This is a "must have" book that's free:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...or-Handgunners

Enjoy.

[Dunkem]

The wax burns, consuming oxygen thus removing oxygen molecules from the oxidized metals turning them back into their clean un-oxidized state. And just about any kind will do, as long as it burns. Lots of people swear by beeswax, I use any old leftover candles I scrounge, or you can usually pick up a pile of them from the thrift stores while you're hunting for pewter. Many people use wax solely to flux but I think sawdust does a better job removing contaminants and use wax to just reduce the oxides back into the melt. It will flare up, so just be warned, it will melt, sizzle then whoosh! Just stir it until the flames stop then skim the black gunk and start pouring ingots.

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[Hossfly]

Lots of good info in that book.

[Dunkem]

Sorry, I just reread your post and realized I missed a question. As for quantity of wax to use, that would depend on how much lead you have in the pot, and how dirty/oxidized it is. My pot holds approx 30 lbs and after fluxing a few times with sawdust I find that a Nickel sized ball is plenty. I don't think overdoing it is going to hurt anything, just waste wax and create a bigger fire.

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[Hossfly]

Be sure you don’t have any zinc wheel weights, if they are real old collection there may not be any, if newer there may be quite a few. Anyway use the thermometer and keep your pot at just over melting point to maybe 100’ over and when a weight don’t want to melt skim it out. That will be zinc or steel one. Zinc will ruin your alloy, very hard, easy to detect, and don’t walk off from your pot while melting, if you get too hot the zinc will alloy into the mix and ruin everything.

[huntnman]

I do not strive to achieve maximum velocity, most of my personal lead supply is in ingots of coww and soft lead I also keep all high tin content solder joint ingots separated I have found that I can blend most any alloy I need with these. Straight ww for rifle, 50/50 for hand gun( I shoot a lot of HP), 75% ww/25% soft, for mag pistol, plus the tin as needed to help fill out of mold You might be surprised how soft a boolit can be when it fits the bore. Water quenching helps increase hardness if needed. I save mono and lino for special projects.

[Traffer]

You may want to get a hardness tester. I do not have one. I use a set of pencils. If you try the pencil tests BEWARE you can get some results that are WAY off. I has problems so I tested the pencils themselves and found on my set that the hardness of the pencils was not sequential as the numbers went. For example a 3B in my set was softer than a 5B. That is nuts. Maybe I just got the wrong set of pencils. I still use them but am far more careful ...I am getting to be better with my fingernail now. After a while you can tell pretty well with your thumbnail. I know you can get a Lee hardness tester for sixty some bucks. If you have a lot of different lead alloys and need to cast it in a very tight range of hardness it may be the thing for you.

[LenH]

In the words of Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles, Holey Underwear! I almost snotted my coffee when I read the deal about `You Have to take the lead Too'.
Great find. It is evident that these fellows didn't know what they had or were just wanting to get rid of the stuff. I had to deal with my fathers estate and
while trying to have a garage sale my wife told me to leave. I was giving stuff away that meant nothing to me and she is trying to make a bit of money.

Keep in mind Fit is King all else is secondary. The book mentioned above is a great read and a wealth of information. You might want to get
a Lyman Cast Bullet manual.

BTW welcome to the madness.

[lightman]

Wow! That was a great score! That sizer retails at $338, the dies are $52.50 and the top punches are another $18.50. The lead and the ammo cans add even more value to your score.

There are several stickys about sorting wheel weights and smelting lead that will help you and are worth reading. There are also a few stickys about wheel weight composition. There is also a member here that can preform XFR analysis on lead alloys if you really want to know what you are mixing.

To try and answer your questions:
1. A member on this site designed a calculator for making alloys that is free and available to download. It will answer a lot of questions about blending alloy.
2. I hand sort wheel weights and melt them in batches of 350-400#, mostly because thats just what my pot will hold. So, I would say yes, sort them and melt them in large batches. It is possible to cook a little of the tin out of an alloy but personally I don't worry about it. I also don't worry very much about the hardness changing over time.
3. Fluxing--- There are lots of opinions on this. I flux everything that I melt. I flux with sawdust a few times when I smelt and a final time with wax. Sawdust will make carbon which bonds with any trash and the wax sort of helps the oxides to mix back into the alloy. Bees wax is a favorite but paraffin or candle wax will work. I also flux my casting pot but only use wax in it. I usually use about a pea size piece of wax per 25# and I light it after it melts.
4. The link that jsizemore posted is to an excellent book. I you want to buy something Lyman and RCBS also have books on casting.

Welcome to the site. The search function is nice but feel free to ask questions. Sometimes the discussion that follows can be beneficial. Oh yeah, is was really nice of you to take all of that nasty old lead off of those guys hands so that they didn't have to deal with it!

[OFFSHORE]

Thank you all very much for all the replies and information. . .it is GREATLY appreciated!!! After reading all the links, "Stickies" and helpful advice by you all, it appears to me that I can reach my goal of creating a cast bullet of 16 to 18 BHN with just COWW and water quenching. That it is o.k. to melt down all the WW I have turning them into ingots. The process in doing so would be (in my 20lb. cast iron pot) to melt the WW at around 650 degrees, skim the trash out leaving the spiderweb of tin/antimony on top, flux twice with saw dust and then a third time with a small amount of wax. . .all this sound correct for ingots? I have also ordered a casting thermometer and hardness tester. As soon as I hear back from Accurate Molds on when my molds will be done, I will get the Lathesmith to punch me out some dies for the press and I'm going to start making BOOLITS! Thanks again everybody and I will keep you posted on my progress.