PBcastcoMidSouth Shooters SupplyLoad DataTitan Reloading
RotoMetals2Inline FabricationRepackboxLee Precision
Wideners Reloading Everything
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 102

Thread: Caliber wars and other silly things

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Caliber wars are mostly "mental masturbation."

    Truth is:

    Any gun is better than no gun. If you can't carry a gun, due to "work rules," I can tell you from experience that Klein electrician's pliers or Channel Locks make an effective come-along and impact weapon. Hard hat is great impact weapon which can be thrown. Been there too and done that. Any workman's tool belt has multiple alternatives.

    But a small gun which you shoot well, that is safe, reliable, and accurate enough, is better than the gun rag hand cannon of the month which is not securely on your person.

    There are no "one shot stops" except with close air support or artillery called danger-close onto your position.

    When the unexpected happens, you gotta dance with the girl you brought. Get over it.

    Mall ninjas and bar-room commandoes who have never been downrange in harms way or been shot at need reply.

    Cops and military vets are encouraged to contribute.

    Former UCs and spooks probably have the most useful info which can be applied to civilian CCW.
    Enough wisdom in this one to shut down the Internet! As for common tools, I can say that a ball peen or common claw hammer are devastating weapons (having worked on two horrific murders in which that was the weapon) and easily kept around without comment.

    Get a commonly available compact pistol (actually get two if possible) and learn to shoot it well and keep it on your person as much as possible (and don't be talking about it). Your mental game and related preparations are much more important than the gun, caliber or ammo. Get your mind and spirit right and keep them right, then quit worrying.
    Colt's Manufacturing Company Armorer Instructor
    Aimpoint USA L/E Pro Staff
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master

    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    7,239
    Hee Hee, I've only been shot at once and that was in Compton and I was in the back of a panel truck leaving the scene. I was 17 and half drunk so I remember nuttin'. But I chose my SD weapon by the big hole in the end and not by what some celebrity said... Colt 1911A1
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  3. #63
    Boolit Master Wag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    It is because most haven't learned the secrete my grandfather told me when I was a little boy.
    Every year he would kill a wild hog , sometimes two , on our annual hunting trip. I would go with my Paw-Paw while the others went off in search of white tail deer. At night heated caliber wars broke out, each touting his favorite 30-06, 30-30 , 30-40 Krag , 270 Win , 257 Roberts...as best. But the old man never got involved in them .
    But my Paw-Paw would always hunt with an old single shot 22 LR Winchester Rifle and every year he got a hog, squirrels , rabbit even birds ! So I ask him why he doesn't use a big rifle like the others ? And he tells me "because they haven't learned the secrete" and tells me " Boy, the truth is ,it doesn't much matter what you shoot a deer or hog with....what does matter is where you place that bullet !"
    And that's the honest truth. I've seen that old man kill many a hog with just one shot of that 22 LR.
    Gary
    It's always that old guy in the corner with the beat up gear/pack/rifle who doesn't say much. Don't ever bet against that guy.

    My granddaddy was about like yours. Didn't talk much during these kinds of discussions but always brought home the bacon. Sometimes, he'd go to his 30-06 or a shotgun, depending on his intent, but mostly, just the dang truck rifle in 22LR that he used for a lot of his game.

    I miss that old guy. I have a thousand-million questions for him....

    --Wag--
    "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    'Bout a hundred miles from the Gulf of Mexico
    Posts
    1,151
    Mary Ann, cause, ..................... well, you know.

    Calibers? Pick one, learn it, become proficient with it, if not up to the task, pick another.
    Berate anyone for their choices, heck no!!!
    I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern Arizona
    Posts
    4,284
    The best analysis of caliber wars, for hunting at least, was a chapter in Jack O’Connor’s The Last Book. He and Elmer Keith went around and around about the .270 versus .338 and above for decades. The back pages of the two-volume Safari Press compendium of Keith’s Guns and Ammo columns tell the other side of the big-vs-small bore “controversy.”

    But the main function of caliber wars was to sell gun and hunting magazines. No reader would keep buying a magazine that said his pet firearm was just as good, but certainly no better, than another. This, even if his rifle was a box-stock specimen bought from Western Auto and he was still on his first box of factory rounds after five seasons’ hunting.

    The fact that successful hunting is such a subtle blend of woodcraft, animal psychology and behavior expertise, field marksmanship and luck, that the caliber and load of the gun are most likely lost in the noise, is something nobody really wants to hear. That the .303 Savage is much better than “the old thirty-thutty”, and the .35 Remington is better still, is rousing stuff to the owners of such.

    Caliber wars in magazines were refereed by editors who kept the direct personal element out of the arguments, because nobody would pay to read such. The writers could generalize about wimps with popguns and Magnumitis sufferers in general, but the essays couldn’t deteriorate into anything close to the average Internet flame war on the subject.

    Definitely Mary Ann. Lower maintenance, for one thing.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Annapolis,Md
    Posts
    2,664
    I'm old enough now that Mrs. Howell is starting to look hot.

    Do you notice also that the most opinionated folks discussing the latest and newest cartridges and bullets designed for extremely long range shooting defend such stuff after only ever using them on their 100 yard ranges? Long range hunter/SWAT/Sniper/tactical wannabe's live in a dream world and tilt at Internet windmills while riding bareback on their unicorns. As someone alluded to earlier- beware the grey haired squinty eyed old guy who's been shooting nothing but his old M70 .30-06 since he bought the thing in high school with lawn mowing money.

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    9,254
    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    I have got an ear full on here when even mentioning a 25 or 32 for self-defense. I have a wide variety of calibers and the only bad ones are the ones I don't own yet but am trying my best to correct this. And to mr percle your grandad hit the nail on the head. I am perfectly happy to carry a 22 or 25 as I am with my 41 mag. If you feel you need more gun then by all means go for it. For me it's all about hitting where you aim.
    No flack from me on the merits of a 22 LR , I sometimes carry one myself , it's all about where you place that boolit. Lots of men and game have fallen to a well placed shot.
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Belfast, ME
    Posts
    560
    It’s a feedback cycle. You get a Springfield .3006 when you are 15. Then you get a bullet mould and loading tool so you can shoot more for the money. Then you find more used moulds and maybe a revolver. By the time you are 75 you have spent your hobby money along the way to do lots of shooting, and have a number of calibers of guns and moulds and of course a mould cries out for a gun to shoot it in. Do I sound like I am relating personal experience?
    So there is the Lee 338-220 I cast some bullets for a friend a long time ago, who went squirrely and refused to shoot lead after he got them. Then Lyman 338320 200gr came along recently, so naturally I had to bid on a .338 Federal Ruger. While that was in the works, a local Ruger .338 RSM turned up on Uncle Henry’s, complete with brass, bullets, and dies. How can you pass that up? So now I have two different caliber .338 rifles, two .338 moulds, and more shooting. That’s how it works in the cast bullet world.

    Aside to .44MAG#1 - the docs just want to compare you to water. Thank the French. After their revolution, they wanted nothing to do with royal units. They wanted only natural units - they decided to divide the distance from the pole to the equator into 10 million measures. Called meters in French. Then made everything powers of 10 from there, and tied weights to measures by calling a cubic centimeter of water a gram. (Also, a square meter an are) But vive egalite! No more pounds, feet, or acres for France!
    "You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountains to ocean, and legions, now quiet, will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal." Robert Toombs, Democrat of Georgia, warning of the results of the imminent attack of the Confederacy upon Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor, 1861

  9. #69
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I must be weird as I see two extremes quite a bit. Many think they need a 7mm Mag for deer and the opposite....even a .22 will kill a moose if you can place the shot.

    One of my neighbors wants to hunt elk with his .243 and has been told by a "bunch of folks in Colorado" that is plenty of gun. This same guy shot the lower leg on a deer at 70 yards out of his cabin window last year....and the little deer lived for at least another 3 months hobbling in to feed on corn.

    Good responses so far and I agree with most. A lot of "this is what I do" or "this works for me" factors into these types arguments. With the least knowledgeable normally getting the most worked up.

    I get wound up when I believe the caliber selected is not suitable for the skill level of most people to insure a humane kill. If someone wants to use a .338 Win Mag to hunt deer, I think they are idiots but it is none of my business.
    Aha! So one of the culprits this thread is about comes out.

    A hunting gun is a 270 winchester through 30-06, everybody else is stupid. What a sad world to live in.

  10. #70
    Boolit Master
    oldblinddog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    960
    Turning a .338 Win Mag into a .33 Winchester is easily done by even a minimally skilled reloader.
    USMC 6638

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Sun Valley, California
    Posts
    1,956
    Perhaps the "Caliber Wars" are also 'driven' by State Game hunting Regulations.
    We 'Know" a Properly placed .22RF Shot will kill an Elk or Moose but Game regulations say it is "Inhumane" to hunt such with a .22RF cartridge.

    Game regulations also don't "like' Road Kills with a Motor Vehicle. Seems a Motor Vehicle is not "Sporting" even When the Animal jumps/runs to the Impact site to quickly fo ra Driver To react/Stop before hitting the animal.

    Personally it seems like the Animal is committing "Suicide by Motor Vehicle"; just like Humans who choose to sleep, or walk without listening, on Railroad Tracks.

    Chev. William

  12. #72
    Boolit Master dh2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ft.Bragg,NC
    Posts
    707
    I have seen it on this and other forums, to me I don't like the 270 Win. many other rounds do the job better ,so I just don't hunt with it, I am all for hunt with the gun that feels good to you,

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
    GARD72977's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    TUPELO MS
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
    Glock = Purfection
    Case closed




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I agree! If it's chambered in a glock it's great. (Even the 45Gap)

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
    GARD72977's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    TUPELO MS
    Posts
    1,726
    There is a funny thing about guns and cartridges. Nothing comes without a price. Power, Range, and Accurracy are all affected by Mr Newton and his law.

    Ignore all the cost and the 338Lapua is a do it all cartridge

  15. #75
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,838
    Against my better judgement, I think I will partake in the fruitless plight of Caliber Wars.
    Quote Originally Posted by 44Blam View Post
    If it's not equal to or bigger than.430, it's bull puckie!
    The Story:
    My Favorite caliber was the 44 Mag, to be referred to as 43 Mag for the rest of this post.
    I started reloading because of the 43 Mag, and then I started Swaging jacketed bullets because of the 43 Mag, then I decided I didn't want to buy cores for this Swaging, I then entered the realm of melting metal...AKA: casting cores...all because of the 43 Mag. I joined castboolits, again because of the 43 Mag.
    >then I learned a few things from this website, that I probably should have learned long ago, but I guess better late than never.
    I learned that the 43 is not a 44. I learned that even SAAMI can't agree on barrel size specs for the 43 Mag (Pistol and Rifle specs are different). I learned that most rifle manufacturers are using some arcane notion of a slow twist rate on the 43 Mag rifles they manufacture, making them less suitable for heavy boolits.

    Soon enough, I learned to hate the 43. Especially when I learned about the 41 mag. Everything wrong with the 43 has been fixed by the masters who created the 41 Mag.

    Viva 41 Mag !
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  16. #76
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    sulphur springs, Tx
    Posts
    1,243
    I thought caliber was a designation of the bore and groove diameter of a rifled barrel. I thought cartridge was the designation of the case containing a specific volume of propellant; and could be of the same caliber or smaller or larger caliber. I shall amend my thinking. This has been a fun post!
    Decreed by our Creator: The man who has been made able to believe and understand that Jesus Christ has been sent into this world by the Father has been born of the Spirit of God. This man shall never experience spiritual death. He will live forever!

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
    woodbutcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LaFollette Tn
    Posts
    1,398
    Hi Outpost75.Your post about one shot stops reminded me about an article writen a few decades ago by one of the noted gun scribes of the day.He said the only thing that would ensure a one shot stop was a"Supersonic Telephone Pole".
    Now my favorite hand gun is the 1911A1 in .45 ACP.Why?Because without one to hand one day I would not be here today.Oh yeah.All 8 rounds went in his chest cavity.Loving this thread.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England,Ar
    Posts
    7,691
    I guess its just human nature to argue over stuff. The best truck, the best brand of reloading equipment, the best brand of tools, ect. When I post I try to be as inoffensive as possible. I had a terrible experience with one of the 3 major brands of trucks. Bad enough that I'll never even consider having another. But I keep that opinion to myself. I had the same experience with bullet molds once. Calibers? Well, they are just something else to have an opinion about, I guess. I do get amused by how people get on the bandwagon and promote certain calibers. I guess the newest is the 6.5 Creedmoor? It does what it does pretty well but its no better than a few other 6.5's. An otherwise pretty knowledgeable shooter once told me that a 7MM STW does not drop at all! My reply was "how does it defy gravity"?

  19. #79
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Orange, VA NOW
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I keep buying different guns in different calibers thinking at some point I am going to find THE ONE.
    Now I have several very nice rifles and handguns that I can't shoot very well.
    After an experience I had a few months ago, I refuse to let anyone else shoot my guns.
    I let a man who was know to be an excellent shot shoot my 1911 and he shot a magazine full of my handloads into a tiny little raggedy hole at 15 yards. I know it won't shoot that well because it never did it for me.

    I guess I will continue my search.
    Coffee launch. That made me crack up.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    barry s wales uk
    Posts
    2,655
    If the cap fits wear it.buy/ shoot what suits You .

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check