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Thread: Caliber wars and other silly things

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    For a Sinker on a deep-sea fishing pole …..

  2. #22
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    If it's not equal to or bigger than.430, it's bull puckie!

  3. #23
    In Remembrance
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    My 2 cents worth is It is more of a matter of what a person is comfortable with. If they are comfortable shooting a particular cal/rifle combo, they are more apt to shoot it regular. I've known numerous one gun shooters that were awesome hunters and paper punchers. My self, I got more shooti'n irons than I can shake a stick at. I'm A deplorable ( aka known as a gun nut) but when it's time to put meat in the freezer, I got MY favorites. The bottom line to me is if it's your favorite 88mag whizz bang, it's up to you to decide whether to use it or not.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post

    Truth is:

    Any gun is better than no gun. If you can't carry a gun, due to "work rules," I can tell you from experience that Klein electrician's pliers or Channel Locks make an effective come-along and impact weapon. Hard hat is great impact weapon which can be thrown. Been there too and done that. Any workman's tool belt has multiple alternatives.
    I am not even allowed that at work, unfortunately. I would much prefer even a 22 short that I could carry, or a tool or other improvised weapon, but no go. *sigh* Guess I have to just continue scurrying as fast as I can when I am out of the building and not yet to the truck (requires a trip on public transportation). I hate being a soft target.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    brewer12345, "you have a knee that goes sore at times, and you need to carry a nice heavy Ash, Yew, or at least Red or White Oak cane, right?" A properly sized cane makes one a far harder target. (Not armor plated but against a knife, you can ruin their DAY.) If you can find some even tougher and harder wood (Osage Orange or Ironwood or better yet Ironbark?) that's even tougher stuff. I'm trying to find a 1"x4' dowel of one of these, I have 2 sore knees and the aluminum cane I have would barely dissuade someone with a butter knife, so I'm getting something a bit more substantial. Can't run away, can make it cost them to hurt me though.

  6. #26
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    I think a big problem is we forget the cartridge doesn't do anything. It's just a tube to hold a primer, powder and bullet. The bullet is the only thing that matters at the target. Whats better 270 or 30-06? It doesn't matter if both send a 150 grain bullet at 2800ish FPS. At that point you could argue the ever so slight difference in BC or penetration, but that comes down the bullet again doesn't it?

  7. #27
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    Saw a discussion the other day, "which is better for my woods deer hunting in Minnesota, .30-30 or .35 Remington"? Have to laugh at responses. So many have this idea that the .35 has so much "knock down" power, whatever that means. I guess the annoying thing is people who can't reason and think, anybody who looks at ballistics on paper will see little difference. Both work fine, deer won't know the difference, there may be some little specifics like if you don't reaload, the .30-30 is easier to find ammo for, but in the end, it's a silly thing to even ask.

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Also "whichever one you can hit the target more accurately with!" could be the better cartridge, really.

  9. #29
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    For me, the best caliber is the one that won't tear the wires out of my pacemaker and will still kill a deer.
    If I go too big it might kill on both ends.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Hickory, good point! Have to survive to count the caliber as a good idea.

    Friend (ex-cop) had one of those 4-shot 357 derringers; He said on that thing that he wasn't sure it was better to SHOOT it than to be SHOT by it. I am just guessing here but I think he didn't much like the recoil :P Unpleasant recoil can get old, even if it doesn't try to kill us.

  11. #31
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    I like to read the back and forth on X vs Y but in reality who wants to get shot by anything above a BB gun. I sometimes carry a 32 auto and get laughed at for carrying a mousegun but so far no one has volunteered to let me put a few rounds into them. I work on the what ever you can shoot comfortably and accurately dept.

  12. #32
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    Is this subject concerning calibers that are very close in caliber, bullet weight and velocity or are we talking about the 357 Mag verses the 44 Magnum type thing?

    Again I mean no harm, hurt or anguish by my statement. I am not trolling, baiting or calling out anyone. My statement is based on my knowledge and/or my experience and/or information.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    Is this subject concerning calibers that are very close in caliber, bullet weight and velocity or are we talking about the 357 Mag verses the 44 Magnum type thing?

    Again I mean no harm, hurt or anguish by my statement. I am not trolling, baiting or calling out anyone. My statement is based on my knowledge and/or my experience and/or information.
    Or about a cast bullet in the 223 for coyote hunting?

    Perhaps some "caliber wars" are simply subtle suggestions (sometimes not so subtle) that what is desired may not be appropriate or the "best" choice based on numerous factors......?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Or about a cast bullet in the 223 for coyote hunting?

    Perhaps some "caliber wars" are simply subtle suggestions (sometimes not so subtle) that what is desired may not be appropriate or the "best" choice based on numerous factors......?
    I don't think my commentary is on a specific situation in which we can all agree a generous amount of healthy knowledge and experience can be exchanged and appropriate...ie using a 22lr for deer hunting. Can you do it? Yes, is it advisable? No...

    My commentary is on the propensity for people to argue so violently about something they are not personally involved with. It's the violence of opinion that is the point of my concern. Getting worked up over minutia is icing in the cake of ridiculous...but there are few things worth getting all worked up over...but calibers of all things seem to be one of those things people choose to make a hill to die on over.

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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    People tend to self-validate.

    I purchased "X" so therefore "X" must be the best thing on the market.
    Human nature. Some have a need to be included in a "society" and will usually parrot what their favorite "celebrity" says (Keith, Skeeter, Grennel. Ayob, etc.). Some need to see their opinion in print (or on the screen), and yep the self "validation". "Lee haters" are a good example...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Wag's Avatar
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    As human beings, we all hate to be told we're wrong. We love to be right and we love to be admired for it. If we form a belief, we hold to it because to be told our belief is wrong is to be embarrassed for making a "bad" decision about that belief we hold to.

    Most of us don't even know why we believe what we believe. In most cases, it has to do with how we were initially raised by parents or by our first instructors in a topic. Ergo, "Daddy love Chevy's, Granddaddy loved Chevy's and by god, I love Chevy's too." Or, "My first firearms instructor taught me...."

    You get the idea.

    The bottom line is, "best," is very subjective anyway. Few, if any, of us have ever done a truly scientific study to answer any of the questions we have in order to determine the facts of the thing. We choose to trust someone who posted a video of bullets hitting a gel block. Or we trust FBI studies of people who were killed by various bullets. Or a thousand other reasons we take to believe a certain thing and when it all comes down to the end, we still go on our beliefs.

    And we defend those beliefs, tooth and nail because we simply don't like to be wrong.

    Better that we stay open to possibilities, regardless of whether we continue to hold to our beliefs afterward or we choose to adopt a different belief as a result. Nothing wrong with listening.

    --Wag--
    "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

  17. #37
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    BB gun to 12 gauge is my favorite caliber.

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel4k View Post
    It started when Grog argued with Kror about the stick vs. the rock.
    mmmmmmm........me use stick and rock. grog and kror is dumdum.

    its easy to start a caliber war. 30-06 vs 270, 260 vs 6.5 cm, 22-250 vs 220 swift.........but it is hard to end it.


    i deleted my "ft/lbs" myth. i figured it would go to caliber wars to ft/lbs war(which ft/lbs would lose).

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I must be weird as I see two extremes quite a bit. Many think they need a 7mm Mag for deer and the opposite....even a .22 will kill a moose if you can place the shot.

    One of my neighbors wants to hunt elk with his .243 and has been told by a "bunch of folks in Colorado" that is plenty of gun. This same guy shot the lower leg on a deer at 70 yards out of his cabin window last year....and the little deer lived for at least another 3 months hobbling in to feed on corn.

    Good responses so far and I agree with most. A lot of "this is what I do" or "this works for me" factors into these types arguments. With the least knowledgeable normally getting the most worked up.

    I get wound up when I believe the caliber selected is not suitable for the skill level of most people to insure a humane kill. If someone wants to use a .338 Win Mag to hunt deer, I think they are idiots but it is none of my business.
    Don Verna


  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Some have never been taught or forgotten the art of debate. Debating a subject is far different than arguing or fighting and goes along ways towards pointing out pros and cons on each side. A different side to or opinion to some is the same as questioning their intellegence or manhood. Debating and discussion is fast becoming a lost art.

    Selection of a cartridge, caliber, type of powder, rifle type or action is a very personal choice and as such is not really a debatable point. Same with reloading equipment, shooting gear, and many other things. Personal choice is just that. I have found when someone asks for advice they are more looking for you to rationalize their choice not point out the pros cons of it or other choices.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check