.410 loading without a shotgun press..

[mattw]

So, I have my Dad's old single shot .410 bolt gun and a small handful of very old shells. Use it from time to time on skunks and other critters. I can see running out of shells for it and I do not have any form of shotgun loader or experience with loading shot shells over the last 30 years.

I am wondering if it would make sense to roll my own with some kind of brass shell, maybe 444? Would be reusable without a shotgun loader. I would assume that a powder charge under a cardboard wad and a shot charge above it and sealed with another cardboard wad and maybe a little candle wax. Now if I could find some brass .410 shells, I would be set.

What do you all think??? Bad idea?

[mattw]

Ok, nevermind... I found some answers here with the magical search bar!

Do I really need shot cups? Remember, total newb when it comes to shotgun loading. Now I would really like to find some .410 real brass cases... even 4 or 5 to test with.

So, I do have plenty of 303 Brit brass, I have read here that it fire forms just about perfectly for a .410. How on earth would one fire form the brass out that much? I assume you would not just drop in a full power load. So... load them way down with a fast powder? Maybe unique?

[W.R.Buchanan]

A better idea would be to buy a new box of .410's for $12.50 and shoot them. At the rate you shoot them it wouldn't be economically feasible to reload them.

If you decide to shoot alot more, then maybe. There are several hand reloading tools available to do this and it isn't that hard to learn how to do it.

.444 Marlin brass is what you are looking for the load. It can be reloaded with a small punch and a wooden dowel, and some hot glue. Best to use proper shot cup type wads and a cardboard over shot wad to seal in place with the hot glue.

Randy

[RPRNY]

^^^^^^At rate of use, buying a box of .410 sells when you need them would be the smartest. But, if this is by way of the "yeah, I know, but I really just want to make .410 brass shells" justification, then I have no argument whatsoever.

Options are 444 Marlin brass, a few over powder cards, a fiber wad, and a 1/2 oz shot cup with the gas check and buffer cut off (so it will fit in the brass) an 1/2 oz to 5/8 oz shot or, skip the fiber wad and use a short half oz shot cup.

You can skip the shot cup and just use a fibre wad, but even with a Full Choke, that pattern is going to open up fast; it's more or less a spreader load.

Alternatively, Magtech offer brass 2 1/2" shells. They are really a black powder option. Use .430" over powder cards and wads, don't use a shot cup (BP and plastic don't play well together) and a .450 overshot card. Generally match powder and shot loads - so 2 drams FFg and 2 dram equivalent of shot. This will spread out as well but less so than a similar load with smokeless shotgun powder.

I have used the following successfully:

444 brass
Win Large Pistol primers
11.8 grs Alliant 410
2 over powder .430 cards
.430 fiber wad, thinned to fit column
Ballistic Products short shot cup (buffer and gas check cut off so it's just the cup)
.430 over shot card - two dabs of Gorilla Glue

They work well but loading for small volume 410 use isn't worthwhile.

I was experimenting with making a 444 brass 410 slug load this weekend. It was a failure.

[bikerbeans]

If you want to reload 410 without buying a press it is easy enough. Order from BPI, a bag of primed hulls, a roll crimper and cards or wads of your choice. IF you don't run hot loads you can reuse the hulls and avoid resizing. You can use a pin a 3/16" pin punch and a 1/2" drive spark plug socket and mallet to seat a new primer.

BB

[Reverend Al]

I reform .303 British cases for my Lee Enfield .410 Musket and it works just fine. I anneal them about 1/2 way down the body, then prime them and load them with about 6.5 grains of Nitro Trap 100 (any fast powder will work like Red Dot, 700X, Bullseye, etc.), then I push a 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue down onto the powder with a wooden dowel. I fill the case to the mouth with bulk yellow cornmeal and push another 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue into the case mouth to hold it all in place. Chamber them and point them straight up in the air and fire-form. (I find if you point the muzzle straight up they will form square to the chamber and not lop-sided.) After that just load them with .410" card and fibre wads from Circle Fly Wads. Easy peasy ...

So, I do have plenty of 303 Brit brass, I have read here that it fire forms just about perfectly for a .410. How on earth would one fire form the brass out that much? I assume you would not just drop in a full power load. So... load them way down with a fast powder? Maybe unique?

[NyFirefighter357]

I always like making things & doing things yourself but I draw the line on cost of time & material needed vs how much you will use. A box of .410 shells is about $10-$18 at Walmart for 25. If you catch a sale you can do better. If you only shoot a box or less a year is it worth it? It wouldn't be for me. I got rid of my .410 25 years ago because I could buy 12ga game loads for $3.25 at Service Merchandise while I had to buy .410 shells at LGS for $16.

[GhostHawk]

The flip side of that coin is being able to load for your .410 in a SHTF situation.

I personally prefer the magtech 2.5" brass hulls. But finding data for smokeless powder takes some real google-fu. Not to say it can't be done, just not easy.

I have not shot many of mine. I have not needed to. But the tools, hulls, wads, live in a box ready to go at need.

Since starting that project I came across a Lyman Easy Loader for 12 ga. Have loaded some 2-300 rounds mostly #1 buckshot and slugs. I really should get some testing done on some of those also.

There is something to be said IMO for having the tools, the knowledge, the supplys to be able to supply yourself. In the case of a .410 it really does not take that big of an investment to be able to do so.

A punch for overshot wads, a bag of nitro cards, some powder, primers, a basic tool set. A little practice, a little testing. And there you are.

So cheaper in the short run to just buy a box of shells as needed.
Long run, either invest in several boxes, or figure out how to reload.

BPI has just about everything you can imagine for shotgun reloading.
Along with good prices, great staff, great support.

You decide.

[bstone5]

I use 444 Marlin brass for reloads in my S&W Govonor hand gun.
I have shot the reloaded brass several times with out needing to size the 444 Marlin brass.
There is a lot of info on this site for loading the 444 Marlin brass as a shot she'll.
I have some 444 Marlin reloading dies but have not had to resize the brass with several reloads.

[Outpost75]

I search gun shows for 9.3x74R fired brass. I expand to .40 cal. and load full-length with Federal 410SC plastic shot cup and 1/2 oz. of shot using 15.4 grs. of Alliant #2400. The fire-forming loads are tapered enpugh to fit in my H&R .44 shotgun or olde Eley 2" .410s. After firing and reloading the second time they fit in a standard .410 with 3" chamber from then on.

[mattw]

Ok, so part of this is just because I think I can and part of this is for the utility of making rounds for a purpose. It is like reloading metalic pistol and rifle rounds, they can be tuned for accuracy, bullet weights and again the purpose or intended use. 10 cases would likely last me for years, even loading 2 or 3 times per year.

Last good use for a reduced or salt load... I was working in the reloading room and had the doors and windows open, it was hot! I heard a growl behind me... never like to hear that sound. Turned around and 2 adult opossums had found their way in and were actually moving towards me... did they have rabies? Who knows, but they were not afraid of me. I got up and moved around and they stayed. I dispatched the first with the little 32acp on the bench and then encouraged the other to leave with my boots. Not the first time something has wandered into the machine shed and then into the loading room. The first was moving toward me and the second did not run from the gun shot.

Short of it was that I did not want to discharge a full power load in the shop! Would not have discharge the 32, out of concerns for a ricochet off the concrete except for the fact it was standing infront of some old well used partial sheets of plywood. It was a light load and came out so slow that the bounce would have been ok... but it did still bounce.

I have had stray/wild dogs, upset coons and skunks walk into the shed while working... don't like it and don't want it. But, with no a/c in the shop it is going to happen.

Thanks for the ideas and thoughts. Will likely test this with some 303 brit as I have plenty of that around. Likely a few light rounds with tiny shot 9 1/2 and a couple with .311 balls as we do have some bad 2 legged critters in the area.

[justashooter]

smokeless doesn't work well without a crimp, except for red dot and other fast burners. black 2 f works great in shot-shells. a pin punch and a block of wood with a hole drilled in it is great for driving out primers. a dowel and a mallet will push the cases down onto new primers. under-shot card wads are good, either felt or thick cardboard. elmers glue on an over-shot wad is also good.

[beemer]

My 410 is always close to my back door, it's a great pesky critter getter. I load a 4-5 grs. Unique with 45 grs. or so of shot. The load is similar to a 38 spcl shot load only it shoots better because of the smooth bore. You can do mild to wild, walnut hulls to round balls.

That load, some standard loads and a couple of buckshot loads in a stock sleeve make it ready for most anything that pops up. I just grab it and go.

I have used 444 shells but I usually just use regular hulls. I do have a loader but you don't need one. Just for fun I bored a hole in a piece of 1/4" steel plate, polished it out to the proper size and tapped a hull in it to see if I could size it. It is slow but it works. You can make wads with a punch and cardboard or foam boxes and glue in the top card wad. When the crimp gives up I cut it off and use the hulls for odd loads and use the glue in cards. If you play around with it you can make it work.

I like reloading as much as shooting but reloading the 410 makes it a useful firearm. I went way past practical with this mess years ago but it sure is fun.

Dave

[Wolfer]

Like you I don't need many 410 shells but I enjoy making my own.
I start with 444 or plastic 410 cases. Deprime with a pin punch and reprime. 13 gr of 2400 has been the standard 410 load for many years. Cut my wads with a harbor freight 7/16 leather punch from cereal boxes.
Seat a wad over the powder, push in a shot cup with a pencil, fill nearly to the top with shot, seat another wad, fill the last 32nd with elmers glue.
Pretty simple, very cheap and shoot quite well.
444 shells are only 2-1/2" long. If you want 3" you have to use plastic hulls with the crimp cut off or fire form 9.3x74

Edit. 444 cases work fine in my NEF. The rim is slightly thicker than a 410 and they won't chamber in my buddy's mossberg pump.

[MT Chambers]

It's easy to reload shotshells including .410 with out a reloader, all you need is a powder measure, a scale, and a roll crimp tool, only problem is that it takes forever.

[beemer]

Like you I don't need many 410 shells but I enjoy making my own.
I start with 444 or plastic 410 cases. Deprime with a pin punch and reprime. 13 gr of 2400 has been the standard 410 load for many years. Cut my wads with a harbor freight 7/16 leather punch from cereal boxes.
Seat a wad over the powder, push in a shot cup with a pencil, fill nearly to the top with shot, seat another wad, fill the last 32nd with elmers glue.
Pretty simple, very cheap and shoot quite well.
444 shells are only 2-1/2" long. If you want 3" you have to use plastic hulls with the crimp cut off or fire form 9.3x74

Edit. 444 cases work fine in my NEF. The rim is slightly thicker than a 410 and they won't chamber in my buddy's mossberg pump.

444 cases were too thick for my NEF. The rims would also get under the extractor. I modified some but decided to buy a box of brass hulls, haven't tried them yet.

[mattw]

Again, thanks for the input. I may try to fire form 1 cast this weekend if I get time. I will see if I can find shot cups, that will be the hardest part. There are a couple of sources quoted here and I may have a source locally. This is as much a desire to learn as it is a need for shells. It will allow me to make some rounds that one can't buy and it will let me keep some singles around for any purpose. I will report back, even if I have an abject failure!

Thanks all!

[Gewehr-Guy]

I've used Wolfer's method for reloading with great results, and even loaded 158gr .358 bullets as a slug load. If you insert a bullet in a plastic shot cup, and if you can push it through your choked bore without to much resistance, it should be safe to load. Anyway,they shoot well in my old Iver.

[jmort]

I have hand Loaders From Lanes
Here is video for .410 which is amusing using the Lane tool.
Just got a Govenor so I ordered one of these.
https://youtu.be/gK037aQN6qc
Here is the tool and they have a resizing die available for $15
It is an improved version of the Lee Loader
http://www.lanesreloading.com/410.html

[faustus]

This video is for 12ga .... but the same principles apply to 410 ....