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Thread: The gunsmith got my NEF 30/30

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Tom W.'s Avatar
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    The gunsmith got my NEF 30/30

    And he is turning it into a 30/30 a.i. Now to get some dies.....
    Tom
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

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    What advantage does the improved version give?

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    curator's Avatar
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    I too have a Handi-rifle in .30-30 AI. I use the Lee collet Die to resize the neck portion of the case by placing a .125 spacer between the shell holder and the collet. Works great. Then I use the standard seating die to finish seating the boolit.

  4. #4
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    richhodg66

    I don't have one, but I've heard that brass life is extended somewhat, + any performance improvement.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    What advantage does the improved version give?
    Dunno. I've read where they have a bit more velocity. It's mostly just something I've been wanting to do for over 10 years now.
    Tom
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

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    Seems almost like the .22 K Hornet. Everybody says the main advantage is longer case life. I hope it works out for you.

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    Probably an opertunity to get a real throat /leade.

  8. #8
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    Extending the brass life of a 30-30 case by doing a 30-30 AI is gilding the lilly. I have cases that I have fired 15 times. With periodic neck annealing, case life is almost indefinite.

    The main "benefit" of an AI is more powder capacity by taking body taper out, moving the shoulder forward and making the shoulder a sharper angle.

    In the 30-30, powder capacity improves about 12.9%, about the third largest improvement. Increased powder capacity allows for a 150 grs j-bullet to increase velocity from @2300 to an alleged 2700 fps with 24" barrel - ballistics about matching 7.62x51. But, more powder space, less taper, sharper shoulder may not be good. Increased pressure in brass not known for super strength may be suboptimal.

    Handi Rifles are a good candidate however because an SB2 receiver can take this additional pressure and spitzer bullets.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrabruce View Post
    Probably an opportunity to get a real throat /leade.
    This rifle has a "deep throat" to start with.....
    Tom
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  10. #10
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    I always wanted to rechamber one to 30-40 Krag. Just because.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    I always wanted to rechamber one to 30-40 Krag. Just because.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    An excellent idea. I had JES Rebore take one out to 35 Krag for me. In addition to a an original Krag, I have a Ruger #3 in 30-40 and in a strong action like that, you have the versatility of a cartridge that will deliver 308 performance and eek into 30-06 performance with 180s with j-bullets and give you that nice long neck for throwing the likes of the Lyman 311284 down range.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom W. View Post
    This rifle has a "deep throat" to start with.....
    Mine does too.
    I got some 38-55 long cases and necked them down so they fill the super long neck section.

    Special brass for paper patching only.
    I wish the brass was a little thicker thou.
    I have oodles of normal brass thou.
    Maybe I should get a short lever action one day and use some of it.
    Ha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    I always wanted to rechamber one to 30-40 Krag. Just because.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    I came real close to buying a Savage 219 that had been rechambered to .30-40 once. Call me a purist, but a single shot needs to be in a rimmed cartridge. I should have bought it.

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    if your shooting cast i dont see the advantage your not loading max loads??
    So why would you need more powder space??

  15. #15
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    Me? I loaded cast years ago when I was using my son's dies. I have a bunch of loads in the shed, both cast and jacketed. My late hunting buddy would always get two boxes of cast from me every season and killed many deer with his rifle.
    I've been wanting the rifle re-chambered for I know over ten years now, mostly just because. My Ruger #1B was re-chambered to 30-06 A.I. and I really like it a lot. The 30/30 will have a lot of lead fired down the bore to fireform the brass and as I'm old, retired and am in remission of my cancer there's no telling how much longer I have on this side of the grass.
    Besides that, the fireformed brass looks cool.......
    Tom
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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrabruce View Post
    Probably an opertunity to get a real throat /leade.
    If the AI reamer is so configured, but you can easily rethroat a .30-30 without going to the full-monty AI. Ed Harris did an excellent article on this for the Rifleman back about 1980.

    It has occurred to me time and again that, if you wanted stronger .30-30 brass, reforming .375 Winchester oughta do it. IF you can find any.
    Cognitive Dissident

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    I'm just a "plinker" with a 30-30 - don't hung anymore and my experience with a 30-30 is limited to a Winchester 94 and a Marlin 336SC. I shot BP for 50 plus years and only got in to cartridge reloading about ten years ago - so I am by no means and "expert" on the 30-30 - and to be honest - I've never heard of the 30-30AI. So reading this has been very enlightening.

    Now for a curiosity question. I slept and never got a 30-30 Handi - do have a .357. I like playing with loads, etc. and different boolits - mainly lighter loads and nothing serious. Lately, I've been thinking about getting one of the Henry single shots in 308. Anyway . . . .

    Reading this had been interesting. I understand what you are saying about changing the shoulder on the 30-30 using and getting more case capacity - so I got to wondering. How does the performance of the 30-30AI - which has an increased case capacity if I understand correctly - how does the performance compare with the 398 Winchester "tat for tat". Both are .30 caliber bore - if loading the same lead bullet weight and design in both cartridges - is one have more advantages than the other? Maybe a dumb question but it was just something I was thinking about as I'm not sure how the case volume of a 30-30AI would compare with a 308 - and yes, one rimmed and one rimless I know.

    Thanks. I'd love to see a photo of a 30-30 AI next to a standard 30-30 if anyone could post one to see the differences. Thanks.

    Jim

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Case volumes as follows:

    .30-30 = 44 grains (water)
    .30-30 AI = 48.5
    .308 = 56

    The .308 is already a 60,000 psi cartridge, so you're not going to get close to it with a .30-30 AI without going way above that, into "I blew uo my gun" territory.

    Personally I love the plain-Jane .30-30, since it's the second-best .30 caliber in existence for cast bullets. (First is the .30-40 Krag.) I see little advantage whatsoever in the AI, given that we have so many other options for increased powder capacity these days. The AI series was rational in a time when a man might not be able to afford another rifle, so rechambering the one he had made economic sense.

    The short neck of the .308 is not cast-bullet friendly. It does have a much better throat shape, but that's easily rectified in the .30-30.

    The reduced body taper of the AI allows higher pressures before you get sticky extraction in lever-guns, but that's chiefly an advantage to j-word shooters.

    The increased volume help you shoot heavier cast bullets. Bigger charges of slower powders. But if that's the plan, go to the .30-40 Krag.

    YMMV, but that's my take on it. I have only one "improved" cartridge in my stable and that's a K-Hornet.
    Cognitive Dissident

  19. #19
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    SB2 receivers come with 270 win barrels from the factory. You'll ruin 30/30 cases before you get to gun destroying loads with rifle powders.

    I love AI cases and the 30/30AI would be a good one to add to the collection for when my kids start hunting.
    Doug
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  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Thank you uscra112 - that answers a lot of questions for someone who is still learning about rifle cartridges! Right now, all I load in bottleneck is the 30-30 and 8mm Mauser to shoot in my old 1905 Danzig GEW98 - and those are just light charges in the Mauser. I just plain like the 30-30 and always have. Used to hunt with my father-in-laws Winchester 94 - vintage early 1930s that he bought when in high school. Loved that one but he gave it to his son who promptly sold it as $$ were more important than sentiment.

    I stick strictly to cast. Want another 30-30 in single shot so am still looking. I keep hoping I might run across a Handi or Henry will off it in their single shot - I think they are foolish for not offering as so many like the 30-30 but that's up to them. I've even considered one of the Uberti rolling blocks as well - we'll see.

    Thanks for the lesson - greatly appreciate it.

    Jim

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check