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Thread: Old And Out Of Touch

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


    David2011's Avatar
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    I'm most likely younger than you having retired late last year but definitely not young. When I explained my rapid fire situation and posed a question a few years ago on this forum looking to reduce smoke I was mostly met with comments like "I could care less how much it smokes as long as the bore stays clean." I got a few really nasty responses for asking the question.

    Dirty powder never bothered me. Loaded ammo that's sticky from lube and has to be cleaned before using it is a slight bother but cleans up pretty easily. I've rolled around in the floor working under my share of cars and been greasy up to my elbows so not afraid of "a little dirt." When I load cast boolits into ammo I have come to appreciate powder coated boolits because they keep me cleaner, the loading dies stay cleaner and the action of semi-autos stay cleaner through a match. Lube smoke isn't an issue if I'm shooting a single shot or repeaters slowly. Ammo that doesn't have to be cleaned after loading is pure luxury as is not having lead residue embedded in my fingers.

    The flip side is, in a worst case scenario, shooting a match looking into the sun with the face of the targets in their own shadows and with little or no wind. When I've been practicing and shooting a lot I can shoot 4 to 6 rounds per second on closely spaced targets which are frequently in clusters of four. That's a lot of rounds (and smoke) in a very short time. When the sun backlights that smoke the targets are completely obscured. THAT is when smoke is troublesome. I have actually had to pause a string of fire so I could see the targets again. That costs places in a match.

    Shooting powder coated boolits not only reduces the smoke to almost nothing but also keeps the gun clean enough through a two day, high round count match so I don't have to clean it in a hotel room. Using powder coated boolits with the same charge of the same powder shows that almost all of the fouling was from the lube.

    Shooting cast through my Contender in .44 Mag the old 2400 leaves a lot of powder residue and it's certainly not from a lack of pressure. If it bothers me I can fire a round or two of .44 Special with the same boolit and lube but Winchester 231 and it's clean as a whistle; no need for further cleaning. No idea if the mag load smokes; always too busy recovering from the recoil of a 255 grain boolit at 1600 fps.

    It's not about sensitivity for me; it's about better scores at matches.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Char-Gar I agree have the very same line of thought you do. There are just to many drama queens now days!

  3. #23
    Boolit Master



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    I remember a time when cleaning cases meant wiping them with a rag before reloading them.. Now steel pins and all that ****, my black cases shot every bit as good a shiny brass one. So yeah I know what you mean, lucky for me I have my own range and don't have to put up with anyone's ****.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinsnips View Post
    Char-Gar I agree have the very same line of thought you do. There are just to many drama queens now days!
    Oh, I definitely out of step with the times, as many of the prior posts will attest. I find the reasoning quite interesting.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  5. #25
    In Remembrance
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    Have not loaded any BP loads in my 500 mag yet. I bet it'll smoke 'um out. I am fortunate to own my own 100 yd. range. Any complainers don't get invited back.

  6. #26
    In Remembrance


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    I grew intolerant of the dolts and their `I already knew that` attitude at the gun club I used to belong to. I have my own private range in an old gravel pit on my place and I have benches and targets and hangers from 25 yards out to 200 yds. I am selective who I allow to use my range. I am my own best customer for using it. Now with my health fading South rapidly my range sits unused for 3 years now. At least I didn`t have any `Ya-Hoos` making trouble for me here.Robert

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Char-Gar - I'm with you . . . . sorry, but those things such as smoke and grit and grime don't bother me. I've shot BP all of my life . . . only got in to new fangled cartridges the last ten years or so. I too, prefer to shoot alone when possible so smoke isn't nor has it ever been an issue. And shooting everything from full size cannons and mortars to rifled musket and revolver has produced lots of smoke . . . and I crave the odor of the "holy black" . . . and have never had an issue with the clean up afterwards. The same with smokeless.

    I have cast for close to 55 years . . . have done it over everything from a wood fire to a gasoline plumber's pot to a gas hot plate to a electric melter . . . not high tech . . . and all of my boolits have cast and shot just fine.

    But . . . the young ones have been brought up with all the fancy technology . . . and I'm not knocking that. It is what it is in their "generation" so a lot of things are foreign to them.

    I was brought up on a farm . . . getting dirty was part of that life and working hard taught many life lessons. I have mucked out stalls, dug post holes one after another for hours in the hot sun and taken care of livestock . . whose needs came before ours. Dirt is not foreign to me nor many others who have had such backgrounds . . . that was part of "my" generation.

    And let's face it . . . our generation had it better than the previous ones . . . especially that of our parents who survived during the Great Depression . . . can you imagine what the present generation would do or sound like if they had it like our parents did?

    I'm not making fun of the "kids" . . . I'm truly not. But I'll tell you one thing . . . the first time I see a "crying room or a comfort room" at a range where the young'uns can go to hug teddy bears and drink hot chocolate because things didn't go their way, I'm going to hang up my SAA and Winchester . . . and I'm going to find a good shovel and start to dig my final resting place as I don't want to be around if things get to that point. What can I say? I know I'm "old".

  8. #28
    Boolit Bub Pumpkin's Avatar
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    Char-Gar; I agree with you 100%; my dob is 7-4-1935. Keep up the good work. Respectfully,
    Pumpkin

  9. #29
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    Char-Gar, i am with you.

    what is this shooting range stuff?

    i shoot on my own ground. always have, always will. i have shot bp and smokeless, jacketed and cast. i was an laborman and operator in construction. everything was dirty, including me. dirt doesn't bother me. what does bother me is a "snowflake". "oooooh thats soooo dirty. i got to go to sip my soy banana chocolate raspberry cranapple coffee. i just be here, call me when you need me. opps, i did a politically correct thing, i'm sorry i didn't mention your gender.... the conversation would end with ooo because a spade shovel would end the guy, violently. dang spade shovel, you are politically incorrect.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master
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    If I could shoot lube free bullets I would. I like the concept of PC bullets but I like the speed of using a Star a lot more, so I live with a bit of smoke. Big Deal!

    As to "dirty" powder, I don't see many issues with what I shoot. Anyway, that is what case cleaners are for. And I would clean all my brass anyway as I want to get the dirt from range pick ups off the cases.

    It would be stupid NOT to use cleaner bullets and powders if there were no downsides. If I could PC and size over 1000 bullets an hour, in one square foot of space I would PC all my pistol bullets. That is the bulk of my metallic cartridge shooting.
    Don Verna


  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    i really hate it when my toe nails are longer than 1-1/2 MM.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post
    Char-Gar, i am with you.

    what is this shooting range stuff?

    i shoot on my own ground. always have, always will. i have shot bp and smokeless, jacketed and cast. i was an laborman and operator in construction. everything was dirty, including me. dirt doesn't bother me. what does bother me is a "snowflake". "oooooh thats soooo dirty. i got to go to sip my soy banana chocolate raspberry cranapple coffee. i just be here, call me when you need me. opps, i did a politically correct thing, i'm sorry i didn't mention your gender.... the conversation would end with ooo because a spade shovel would end the guy, violently. dang spade shovel, you are politically incorrect.

    Be careful about calling a spade a spade. You might make someone go into his "hug a stuffed animal" mode......
    Tom
    μολὼν λαβέ


    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom W. View Post
    Be careful about calling a spade a spade. You might make someone go into his "hug a stuffed animal" mode......
    well, being politically incorrect, the spade has a friend(back-hoe) that will do anything he needs. digging a hole and filling it up, for instance.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    With time, culture and thinking changes. When I retired ten years ago, I didn't understand what the younger folks were about and why went about doing things in the way they did. I have noted this phenomena in a number of areas of life.

    I have noted that many shooters are concerned about dirty powder and lube smoke. Yes, my guns and hands get dirty and yes my lube smokes a bit, but neither were worth 2 second of my time to worry about. I just didn't care. I cleaned my guns, and washed my hands. I was concentrating at my target and never really noticed the lube smoke.

    I am truly getting old and out of touch. I just give no thought, not concern to the issues that seems to get under the skin of the younger set. I suppose all of this should matter to me, but it just doesn't.
    These days it's always something. I must have been living under a tub, but this is the first I've heard about the young'uns being upset about dirty powder and lube smoke. But I have not shot at an actual outdoor range in about 20 something years, and it was a local sheriff's dept. range. Only excitement I can recall was when some local reserves accidentally dropped a 16 gauge shell down into the forcing cone of a 12 gauge 870, and then wondered why the bolt wouldn't close on a 12 gauge buckshot round. I am content shooting on my place or over at one of my cousins.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJames View Post
    These days it's always something. I must have been living under a tub, but this is the first I've heard about the young'uns being upset about dirty powder and lube smoke. But I have not shot at an actual outdoor range in about 20 something years, and it was a local sheriff's dept. range. Only excitement I can recall was when some local reserves accidentally dropped a 16 gauge shell down into the forcing cone of a 12 gauge 870, and then wondered why the bolt wouldn't close on a 12 gauge buckshot round. I am content shooting on my place or over at one of my cousins.
    Hang out on this board and you shall be enlightened on the subject at hand.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master


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    I usually go to an indoor range a few miles from my house. The 2 outdoor ranges in LOS ANGELES County are both more then 50 miles away thru the worst traffic you can imagine. Two hours to get there and 3 hours to get home, with only 3 hours to shoot. The vast majority of folks I see at the indoor range have no concept of reloading ammo. They seem to think it's too dangerous and that Handloaders frequently
    Blow up their guns. They truly believe lead bullets will damage their guns. I've even had people move away from me at the range because they afraid I'll blow up a gun next to them.
    They bring a case full of 3-4 handguns and proceed to shoot 20-30 rounds out of each one. There silhouette targets at 7yds look like a shotgun 12ga. 00 buck blast at 50ft.
    They don't seem to notice my 2-4" groups shot one handed at 50ft.
    They just bang away with no real attempt to practice proper shooting skills to get better.
    I've even seen my discarded targets retrieved from the trash by other shooters.
    These youngsters have no desire to learn or better their shooting abilities. They look on me as a strange old man who shoots old revolvers and ancient 1911's, an anachronism from the past, full of silly old fashioned ideas. With no place in the modern world.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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  17. #37
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    Wait ! I like the smell of diesel exhaust ! (does that make me weird ?)

    I clean my guns and it's never a burden.

    I occasionally get comments about smoke when shooting reloads. Inevitably those comments come from younger people. I gave up trying to explain it to idiots that don't really care what I say.

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I am envious of you guys who have your own land with room to shoot. I could never afford the land when I was young and then when older, I had a sick wife to pay bills for.
    I have a nice range within 40 miles that I can shoot indoors at anytime of the day as they allow shooting during the night on the indoor range.
    The outdoor range usually isn't too busy unless there is an official practice or a match going on, which is most weekends.
    Still, I get up there usually once a week. Just got up there today as a matter of fact.

  19. #39
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    The smoke doesn't bother me i clean my guns after each shooting session. But if it bothers you and you can do something about it then by all means go for it. Why not ? I shoot at an outdoor range so smoke isn't a problem. I do have to really scrub my hands before I leave the range when we drive the wife's car. It has white interior and dirty guns would be the least of my worries if i messed that up as it is her pride and joy.

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
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    I don't get as dirty as I used to but I too like the smell of diesel exhaust and fresh dirt. Of course I like the smell of cow **** too!! I guess I am weird!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check