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Thread: Full power load required to size brass?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Full power load required to size brass?

    Plan to shoot reduced load lead bullets out of my Arisaka Type 99 with pristine bore and chamber. Do I need to fire my new brass first with J-word bullets and full power charges to size my brass to the rifle (subsequently only neck sizing) or will my powder charge of 16 grains of 2400 adequately form the brass to the chamber?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A lot of shooters think you need a stiff load to fireform brass. I really don't know if your 2400 load produces enough pressure or not. Maybe someone else will chime in.

  3. #3
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    As to whether or not 16 gr 2400 will fire form (what it's called) the cases to the chamber depends on the hardness of the brass, how much they need to expand and the weight of the bullet (not mentioned?).

    What cast bullet are you using?
    Larry Gibson

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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Lyman 2660299

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Is that the number on the mould?
    Larry Gibson

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  6. #6
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    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    This is very good question I never thought about. I hope this question can be answered.

    I had some light loads where fired cases had soot coming from the neck. I thought the neck wasn’t expanding enough, but maybe the whole case wasn’t fire forming.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Larry, I hope not! That's a 270 mold and he's got a 7.7 - what, 315/316 typical?
    Wayne the Shrink

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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Larry, I hope not! That's a 270 mold and he's got a 7.7 - what, 315/316 typical?
    Yup, I'm confused......
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Looked at wrong box,will be using Lyman 2660299

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4296 View Post
    Looked at wrong box,will be using Lyman 2660299
    Is that a product number, catalog number or mould number?

    Best if you provide the mould number. I'm guessing from that number and it being for an Aisaka type 99 that the mould number is either 311299 or 314299?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Hick's Avatar
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    I don't think you need a full power load to fire form most brass-- but my experience is limited. A couple of years ago I came across some brass that had been run over by cars at the range-- major dents in the casings but no cracks. Some 223 Rem and some 30-30. I decided to experiment. I ran them through a full length size-- which didn't take out the major dents, but made them so they would chamber. I then loaded them with cast bullets at the starting load from Lyman's Cast Bullet handbook and fired them at the range. Every one came out perfect--no dents and no marks-- you couldn't even tell where the dents had been. For these cases, at least, a relatively light load of fast powder was enough.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I frequently make cases for some of my rifles. I use a lower end jacketed load as a general rule. That always seems to work for me. I never use full power loads since you need to check case length after firing and in some cases need to trim. Why stress the case unnecessarily.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    A light load or medium of fast powder usally is enough. If you get soot on the neck or case it isint enough pressure to seal the brass against the chamber. So up the load.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    A lot of people fire forming 5.56x45 into 7mm TCU or the other Contender fodder suggest not fire forming without a bullet, but instead just loading a typical powder charge into the case and a bullet or boolit into it then firing it - They say that the cases turn out just as well fire formed and rounds you do this with are as accurate as those rounds will be once reloaded. I'm not a full believer on that yet, but may try it this next batch of brass I need to fireform, and see. (Won't do well on a compressed load, since the case is still undersized till fire formed, usually!)

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    If you anneal a light cast load will do the trick. I have fire formed with Bullseye and just paper wad with no problem.

  16. #16
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    therealhitman's Avatar
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    Give the Cream of Wheat method a try. I have had great luck with .257 Roberts AI fire forming (40 degree shoulder) using it.

  17. #17
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    I have a light load of Red Dot and a 160 gr cast to FF for my 30-06 A.I. It works great. Then again,I still have some full power J -word bullets I have loaded a long time ago that work well.... I ain't one to use COW. I want to see a hole in whatever I'm shooting at.
    Tom
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post
    A lot of people fire forming 5.56x45 into 7mm TCU or the other Contender fodder suggest not fire forming without a bullet, but instead just loading a typical powder charge into the case and a bullet or boolit into it then firing it - They say that the cases turn out just as well fire formed and rounds you do this with are as accurate as those rounds will be once reloaded. I'm not a full believer on that yet, but may try it this next batch of brass I need to fireform, and see. (Won't do well on a compressed load, since the case is still undersized till fire formed, usually!)
    My experience with the TCU has been the fireforming loads were just as accurate as the already fireformed ones were. I have also used the corn-meal method and can't say that one worked better than the other, but didn't have to go to the range to shoot the cornmeal loads. By the way, I sealed the case with wax over the end of the cornmeal. You don't have to be as careful about dropping powder or cornmeal out of the case.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    I used plastic disks cut from coffee can lids, if I did it again I'd use cardboard disks I think - more biodegradable. Used COW last time, you do have to use a non trivial powder load, too little won't force the brass to fire form fully (It will shove it part way though.)

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Where did you get your mold? Someone gave you a mold for the 6.5 Arisaka, not the 7.7. If the mold number starts with a 266 it is a .266 diameter boolit - your rifle barrel has a groove diameter of something like .314. No way that boolit is gonna shoot in your rifle - it is too small.
    Wayne the Shrink

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check