310 khornet dies

[barrabruce]

Got a new to me aluminium handle and set of 310 dies in 22hornet.
I can’t quite seem to size the neck at all with mine without sizing the shoulder to hold a bullet.
They seem very hard steel.
Question is can one drill out the die open up the first bitenough to work?
Would a good heat with a torch anneal them and a subsequent heating dunking in oil or water work?
Or would it upset the finish in the die body where I need it most?

[Green Frog]

First, are you talking about using K-Hornet dies with a Hornet chamber or vice versa? The 310 is supposed to neck size only, so in theory at least the dies should work either way, but if you are experiencing difficulties with the shoulder, I’m not real hopeful you could change your die with normally available tooling. There are enough of the original Hornet dies available to make it unprofitable to alter the rare K-hornet dies to work (assuming that’s your problem.)

Froggie

[Wayne Smith]

You title is KHornet, you stated "Hornet 310 dies". Which is it?

[barrabruce]

Sorry
I have 310 with hornet dies and I have a khornet rifle.

The rest of the system works just fine.

The neck sizing die will need opening up to a larger diameter with a steep shoulder to work with what I have.

Did the make a khornet sizer or one that would work?
Thnx
Barra

[sigep1764]

The 310 shop has KHornet dies in stock.

[Green Frog]

The 310 shop has KHornet dies in stock.

There you go... the K-Hornet was very popular in the days when 310 dies were at their zenith. (That's top of the curve, not a TV set! ) I'm curious though... are you saying that the neck is too small/tight on your die, or do you not get onto it far enough because the top of the body, beginning of the shoulder area?

Froggie

[barrabruce]

I can’t get in far enough to size But a small ring before the shoulder on my cases are hit.
And that is not small enough to hold a bullet.

I was thinking maybe a masonry drill might be hard enough if you could sharpnen one in the right diameter.

Postage from the USA could be a limiting factor for this project.

Small grinding stone dremel type thing maybe?

[Gewehr-Guy]

I just looked at my old Ideal #3 tool in .22 Hornet, and its muzzle sizing chamber will size regular and K-Hornet, so your die set must be a newer version. Next I tried a .222 die, and it worked, but I don't think it provides enough neck tension to properly hold a .224 bullet, it being made to size thicker 222 brass. I think grinding it a bit with the Dremel tool, while rotating the die in a lathe, would be the easiest method.Good Luck, Jim

[Green Frog]

Barrabruce, you’re way beyond my pay grade with this project... if you were here in the US, I would encourage you to get and use the factory made die. Since shipping would be half way around the World, all bets are off!

There is no reason your concept won’t work, other than surface finish. After you make the die’s interior the right shape, you will need to have a polished internal surface or you will just start destroying brass. I would only advise you proceed with care and keep final surface polish in the back of your mind the whole time. Please keep us informed of your progress.

Froggie

[barrabruce]

Thanks for the help every-one.
I bought a dremel diamond grinding / engraving bit.

Used I think 1/4 inch cut off bolt tapered with file and hand drill to from too, the neck part of the die.

I went a bit too close and had to use a nearly full wrap of Ptfe tape to secure the now mandrel in the “drill in the vice” lathe.
Snuggled in with a nut on the threads to make a stop for the dremel tool.
Hence the wrap of plumbers tape.

I ground the internals checking with a pair of mosquitoe inside calipers I made out of something last century some time.

All seems to work well now.
You can see the case neck has been sized far enough to not hit the shoulder and it needs the expander die now to seat 223 projectiles.

I’m quite pleased and the last bit of the taper from the original machining is still visible which will help to align the case mouth neck.
Attachment 225404
Poor mans lathe
Attachment 225405
Finished case with tools needed.

Yes..... Yes one day I’ll buy a Lathe when I get around to it.

(30 years later )

Bruce

[Green Frog]

You’ve impressed me! While I have a lathe I inherited, i’m not enough of a machinist to make that kind of tooling and do the alteration... it’s probably a matter of self confidence, but that’s the way I am. BTW, how hard was the steel inside that die once you started cutting on it?

Froggie

[barrabruce]

The inside seems to be case hardened.
It took awhile to get under the skin.
The last bit seemed to go a lot quicker.
Well so it seamed.

Maybe they are flame hardened.
Or induction hardened or some such.
I have a 5 die set so it must be an older one.

I only made the mandrel because it would not fit in my 1/2” key chuck.

I spent last night making up a bunch of ammo to try.

I will see how accurate it is loading.
I’m after at least 1” or less at 100yrds with its normal load and length.
Still getting the bullet seating figured out.

[SSGOldfart]

Hmmm sir what size is your bullet,my Khornet is .224 and the old hornet is .223, so I found it was easier to Load the brass for the hornet and fire form for the khornet.instead of changing does sets.

[barrabruce]

I bought a few boxes of factory ammo may years ago and use that to fire form.
I’m thinning the herd but still have about 20 unfired factory cases left.

Buying empties and seating out works to fire form cases with a moderate charge works so much better.


Keeping the cases straight to avoid the side web bulge is do able on factory thou.
But I get case neck splits and primers get loose before any cracking shows up in the web.


My khornet is a ‘58 Bruno. 16” twist 0.223”’

Maybe be on the larger side of that now or the tight side of 0.224”.

I made a blank magazine to single load the long pointy gummy bear noslier 40gn sp. 0.224”

40 grn rn of 0.223 or 0.224” seemed to have disappeared off the scene.
Or no longer made that worked for me.

3/4” on a good day or better if I have flags out and in tune as well.
I think I maybe getting a little bit of copper fouling issues thou.

I worked up a load in my rifle using the noslier’s.
Bought a 1000 box cheap.
It’s not a hot load by any means.

I still use SRP inspite of being told I must use pistol primers.
A too slow a powder adi 2205 which ain’t no good apparently.
I’m not loading to get low end 223 velocities so the local guru’s think I’m twisted.
if I wanted a 222 I wood’a bought one.

[barrabruce]

Well finally went to the range today and had a play with things.

I ended up loading the khornet with a home made powder dipper and the adjusted dies.

I am no benchrest shooter and there was a changing wind with no flags.
No data in my ballistic program to see where they might fly.
Any way I soldiered on the best I could do.
After the first group I tied a bit of stripping to the target stand to act as a wind gauge.

Attachment 226780

Well I’m wrapped.
I don’t know about the flyer in the first group but it was more likey me flinching or some such.
The mirage was playing tricks on me and I only got worst trying to adjust the scope chasing my tail in the conditions.
It seems to like a clean every 15 or so shots and with the old school bullets it was 20.
Be good enough.
I thing it shot better if there was a while between shots when I used to hunt with it.
These have worked out better than the press and the dies I use.

I think these 310 tools do a bloody good job.

I tried to seat the bullet in the case and drop them in the seating die head down...but I found a bit of powder in the die.
So switch to trying to load them standing up orientation and closing the bottom up von the tool..
Seemed a bit tricky but I think I could get used ro it.

Big thnx to everyone for the help.
Bruce.