32-20 Ver 327 Fed Mag

[Hooker53]

Ok guys. I know I should understand this better but just asking. The 32-20 case at the rim is larger then the 327. Their length is about the same. The neck is the same size. So why couldn't you push a 32-20 load as hot as the 327 Fed Mag? I'm talking both as a rifle load in a strong 700 Rem platform. The Velosities are not that diff by the books at least not as big a diff as the CUP. Any input would be App.

Roy
Hooker53

[rwadley]

I think brass for 327 Fed is thicker.

[JSH]

You can in MODERN guns. It is over the top of the 327 by a fair bit.
Those that have had brass failures doing such are more than likely using fast powders,trying to get high speeds.
With a 100+ grain bullet, 2400 is the fastest I use. AA9,1680,296/H110 are pretty safe. AA9 is a favorite of mine and MY lot of WC820, which mirrors AA9. Be aware that it is not all the same,mi have another jug that seems to be 2400, go figure.
Plain simple and to the point you can't replace cubic inches so to speak.
These are kind of my spin on black hawk only type loads. Hey they do it with the 45 colt and the 45-70.
One other thing on 32-20 cases being weak. I know of more than one that is using them in 30 carbine black hawks and stepping on them pretty hard.
Yes they are more fragile and thin, just treat them nice and you will be fine.
Pay attention to what your chamber tells you.
I neck size my 30-20 TC loads. These range from a 130-220 grain cast bullet. I have 300 or so pieces of brass that have been loaded o ER a dozen times with out a hitch. I have lost more to bullets starting crooked than splits. I don't recall any body splits, just case mouths. I stopped that by annealing.
My BF pistol gets the same diet as the TC, I keep brass separated as the TC has a generous chamber.
My Buckeye black hawk 32-20/32 mag cylinders get a work out. I get 1400 fps out of 6 1/2" barrel with a custom 140 plain base.

I am not the only one to have played with the 32-20 in this mode. There are not a lot of us, but it has a very loyal following.

If if you want it in a 700 or 7, just go to the 30x221, they are that close.
Jeff

[saleen322]

I have both the 327 and 32-20. The 327 is a modern, high pressure case designed to operate normally at 45K MAP. The SAMMI spec for the 32-20 is 16K CUP that is rated at 1200 FPS for a 100 grain bullet from a rifle-length barrel. My 32-20 is on a Contender but has a more standard 0.308 bore. The advice about using a modern cartridge designed for normal pressure if you are building something I would agree with. I like my 32-20 and I know at least Lyman has loading data for "modern" firearms chambered in 32-20 and it provides performance from the 10" Contender that will equal or exceed what SAMMI shows for the 32-20 rifle. I keep those loads as my limit with the 32-20.

[Hooker53]

Great info from both of you and thank you loads for posting with that info. JSH, I will research your last sentence. The reason in asking this info, is I have dreamed of a Remington 700 platform built for 327 Fed but I'm told by one, that the 700 Will Not feed a straight wall case. That whybim keeping the 32-20 in the back of my mind should I find out that setting up a 700 for 327 Fed is completely a lost cause.

I knew I might have to machine/fashion a magazine box follower and maybe a spacer for the 327 Fed. I'm sure I would have to do the same for the 32-20 in the 700. My problem is IV never worked up a 700. IV always used Stevens 44's and the like with smaller subjects. I wish I could find a real good book on nothing but the 700 has a custom as my subject.

Im also so sold on wanting the 327 in a 700 that I'm not beyond shooting it as a single shot. It would be a shame to do that if it's any chance, of getting a 32-20 to feed in one. Thanks again guys.

As an added note: I was starting with a 700 short action take off from .223 with a .223 barrel relined for 32 Cal. I would go with a .223 bolt face as there is only .010 Diff between a 327 Fed rim Dia and .223. That means the extractor would only see a .005 diff. Can't imagine the extractor not picking the 327 up. Now if I went with the 32-20, I might have to go with another bolt on that one.

If all else fails, I would just set the 700 back to a .223 and be happy. Lol



Roy
Hooker53

[MT Gianni]

Specs on a 327 Fed show to load with a small rifle primer to better handle pressures.

[Lloyd Smale]

in a good gun like a 92 Winchester you can actually push the 3220 as fast or faster then a 327. Ive seen 2000+fps with 120s in mine. Don't ask the load though.

[kayala]

Specs on a 327 Fed show to load with a small rifle primer to better handle pressures.

Can you point to manual data confirming this statement ?

[kayala]

dupe deleted.

[spfd1903]

Can you point to manual data confirming this statement ?

Hornady ninth edition for their 85 grain and 100 grain hp/xtp suggest Federal small rifle primers, for 327 mag loads. For boolits, I have always used spp's.

[Greg S]

Here a little reading on the 32-20: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3220wcf.htm

I've ran some 32-20s pretty hard in a Winouko 1892, I think upwards of 15.0 - 16.0 grains of H110 with a Hornady 100 XTP. The problem is the brass being thin walled. I can run a few of them like that but plan on picking up a Henry in 327 to push them hard constantly. I have a Ruger Buckeye that I sent the 32 H&R cylinder out to Bowen and had them run a 327FM reamer on it.

Can the 32-20 beat the 327, yes at the cost of reduced life of your brass. I think a single shot Contender or an 1885 would be a better platform for this endevor as I have to FL size my brass for the lever with minimal shoulder set back which is difficult to measure accurrately. I'm still new to the 32z20 so I still experimenting.

[kayala]

Hornady ninth edition for their 85 grain and 100 grain hp/xtp suggest Federal small rifle primers, for 327 mag loads. For boolits, I have always used spp's.

Live and learn. I've looked at those recipes half a dozen times at least but somehow it never connected in my head that Fed 205 they've used is small rifle primer ! Hope it's not complete offtopic to this thread.

[dragon813gt]

Live and learn. I've looked at those recipes half a dozen times at least but somehow it never connected in my head that Fed 205 they've used is small rifle primer ! Hope it's not complete offtopic to this thread.

It's not, and it's also going to be powder dependent. You don't want to use a SPP w/ H110/W296.

[Lloyd Smale]

cci small pistol mag and small rifle standard are the same primer. At least that's what cci said a few years back. during the primer shortages of late ive loaded 223 with cci mag pistol primers and ive loaded 9mm with small rifle standard to get by a few times and had no problem with either.

[Hooker53]

I never dreamed I could get this much GOOD info on these two cart on this thread. I knew it was a good question I was wondering about. You can do the math but nothing takes the place of a few good loaders that's worked on this. Like one said, "You can't not consider the case cap Ver the Case Cap". I also knew I was dealing with a thin case mouth/neck on the 32-20. I still would love to build a 327 Fed on a Rem 700 platform. Will I have to work/feel my way through a feeding problem? Yes. I will, but I still think I can work with the Magazine follower to get it to feed. Even I have to mill one out of a block of Alum to do so. I know I will also have to make a Magazine spacer some how to take up the space for the shorter 327 as compared to the .223. That's the base bolt face and short action I was gonna start with. Thanks again all of you for posting this good info and NO Kayala, your never off topic on one of my threads. I welcome and Info remotely related to what I'm looki g for.

Roy
Hooker53

[mcdaniel.mac]

I never dreamed I could get this much GOOD info on these two cart on this thread. I knew it was a good question I was wondering about. You can do the math but nothing takes the place of a few good loaders that's worked on this. Like one said, "You can't not consider the case cap Ver the Case Cap". I also knew I was dealing with a thin case mouth/neck on the 32-20. I still would love to build a 327 Fed on a Rem 700 platform. Will I have to work/feel my way through a feeding problem? Yes. I will, but I still think I can work with the Magazine follower to get it to feed. Even I have to mill one out of a block of Alum to do so. I know I will also have to make a Magazine spacer some how to take up the space for the shorter 327 as compared to the .224. That's the base bolt face and short action I was gonna start with. Thanks again all of you for posting this good info and NO Kayala, your never off topic on one of my threads. I welcome and Info remotely related to what I'm looki g for.

Roy
Hooker53

Far be it from me to stop a neat project in the works, but it sounds like you're reinventing the .30 Carbine or maybe a light-loaded .300-221/.300 Blackout. I know a couple people have loaded the 110gr .30 Carbine plated bullets over 17.0gr IMR4227. Out of an AR15 the test data I saw put it at 1800-1850FPS from a 16" barrel. A Ruger or Remington in .300BLK would save the fabrication work and would leave you to tune the action for the loads you want.

Again, if it's a project for the sake of the project, by all means ignore me.

[JSH]

Those that keep harping that the 32-20 brass is so thin and weak. I would suggest really examining your reloading technique.
I am as Lloyd, I have crowded this cartridge in MODERN guns with no ill effect, period. Yes, use with some caution.
My platforms are a BF, TC and Ruger. I will have a MODERN lever gun before I am through.
I just looked, I have 89 pieces of RP 32-20 brass from a lot of 100. There are 90+ pieces total. They were culled by length. All of them have over 30 reloads on them that I used for IHMSA in the TC, which has the worst chamber of my three. Loads for this consisted of powders from BE too 296/H110 with bullets jacketed and cast from 110-220 grains. These cases have been retired and are used for IHMSA FP class with a dose of BE and a 130 cast.

I have mentioned this before and will once more. Read what your chamber is telling you. This is honestly no different than any other gun/chambering. This cartridge is old enough that there is an infinite number of dimensions on dies. I have at least five, yes five different sets and they all size differently.
If you are just running brass into XXXX brand 32-20 die and FL sizing, you are more than likely way over working brass. If you are trying to make brass work in more than one chamber, you
are fighting a losing battle.
I have played with this cartridge enough to have dissolved a lot of myths, once again in MODERN guns.
Yes,some goober could pick up my ammo and stuff it in grandpas pistol/rifle, but they will have to work at it, and chances are you could not talk any sense to them anyway. My OAL is long enough to not feed in those old guns.

I have had PM's and emails that want to tell me how "wrong"'this is. Yet I have read post by some of them crowding the 32 straight walls in old original smiths and colts to levels I would not even consider.
Yes this cartridge started its life as a BP round, yet so did the 45 colt and the 45-70 just to mention the most common two.

This is not meant to come across as a rant. I just get tired of seeing total myths repeated over and over. I read it on the Internet, so it must be true. Well, with me saying that you can file my input how ever one may wish as well.

Roy,unless you are totally set on a 700 action, there may be some other options out there since you mentioned you would have no problems going to a single shot. You have your work cut out for you for sure. I would be willing to help in any way I can, email me. FYI I have load data you may be interested in,if I have not already sent it to you.
Jeff

[MT Gianni]

JSH have you ever run your loads through quick load to see the pressures generated?

[Lloyd Smale]

cant imagine wanting it in a bolt gun but then that's me. It belongs in a 92 to make me happy. With a good 92 brass life isn't as bad as some would say. Ive got brass that easily on its 10-15 firing with no ill effects. Might give you problems if you have a poorly cut chamber but mine was done by a custom gunsmith and gives great brass life.

[Hooker53]

Hello Lloyd. Never was gonna do a 32-20 in a 700 bolt. I have one in a Sav 23 that I like. The bolt action I was talking about building was for the 327 Fed Mag. Thanks for your post.

Roy
Hooker53