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Thread: Key holeing With a faster load? Why ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Key holeing With a faster load? Why ?

    This seemed off to me and I can't figure out why . I am loading heavy weight 190 gr.ranchdog bullets in my 686 nothing fast and fire breathing just for plinking to use them up . My first try with these was 4.5gr unique seated to near cylinder length in 38 spl cases . They shot fine real mild accuracy was acceptable and no keyholing at 25 yds . I move on up and try 5 gr unique this past weekend and they all key holed! Why ? It's a little faster load should be better for stability right ? Took it up a notch and loaded some up with 10 gr 2400 . All shot fine what gives with the 5 gr unique load ?

    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Jul 2013
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    Truly weird! Keyholing usually's about the boolit being not spun enough by the rifling to stabilize, as you know. For a hotter load to get results of them ALL keyholing? Did you hear the theme song from "The Outer Limits" playing as you shot those or the like? Confused so far, hoping someone else has seen this before though. Glad 10 Gr. works well for you

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Dec 2013
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    St.Germain, WI
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    First thing I would do is check for leading. Could have started to build up with the 4.5 gr. load. After that, check bullet size.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I'm with Mr_Sheesh: you've been zapped by the nasty little black god that runs the Murphy's law court. But upnorthwis has a real good suggestion.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    How hard are the bullets? I am with our old friend 44man on when a bullet, in a revolver, is slammed into the rifling a proper sized bullet should be h-a-r-d-e-r to withstand the stress of the added velocity slamming into the rifling when it is done with a fast powder. Now this is not necessarily so with a slow powder due to the more gentle push starting out with the slower powder. A fast powder coupled with the longer travel distance in a revolver especially using a fast powder and 38 Special cases in a 357 Mag chamber.
    This is my opinion and I am not going to argue, hash out, discuss or debate it.


    Again I mean no harm, anguish, hurt or bitterness with my answer. It is not designed to troll, bait and/or call out anyone on here. Please do not take it that way. It is just my opinion based on my knowledge only and nothing else.


    Again I mean no harm
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    If pushed to hard, softer lead will shear(skid) on the rifling and the boolit will not stabilize and it will tumble. Harder lead will help with that issue.
    If you can recover some of the boolits, you can examine the drive band area and see if the boolit is skidding. If it is, the rifling marks will be weirdly shaped or nearly removed altogether.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I load mine at 4.5 grains Unique with a 158 swc. That is my standard load. Good accuracy but have not tried heavier bullet or more powder. Tried 4 grains, but very dirty. Unique seems to like a little on the hot side to burn the powder and 4 seems to be too light for 158's. Haven't tried the 2400 load.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    I don't think leading is or was an issue I shot them a week apart and cleaned the gun in between and after this weekend and no lead to be found . The alloy was the same as I use in my rifle 50/50 ww/soft water quenched . Skidding or shearing was mentioned but as I stated I also shot the same bullet with 10 gr of 2400 and all was well . The 5 gr unique load is abouts low 20k pressure range the 2400 load is near 30k . One thing that I remember about the target is that all the key holes were exactly the same about a full caliber oval and all oriented the exact same direction . Never see that before either !
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    First WAG. All holes elongated the same in same direction. Was the target tilted? Up, down, side? I have also had targets at the indoor range 'blow' back a little and show same kind of elongated holes. Same if target is not secured top and bottom.

    Second. Can you duplicate this from one week to the next?

    Third, is group size still good? Or at least same as other loads?

  10. #10
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Charlie,I don't think it was the target both bullseyes were sprayed on the same piece of cardboard and only a foot apart from each other side by side . As far as duplicating the results I'm gonna try this weekend with both unique loads . And accuracy was similar with both . I been doing some reading on the old 200 gr low speed police loads and I this one is probably pretty close to what they were going for back then barely stable at impact . I'm also going to see if both loads show any key holing at closer ranges . Hopefully not as they are pleasant to shoot in that 4" 686 just a mild shove in the hand . The 10 gr 2400 load was starting to raise the barrel pretty good don't want to go any higher than that .
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I ran into this with 45 WCs in a m25 S&W 83/8". Was shooting 242gr WCs at 750fps with unique.
    I shot a deer with one of these loads and liked the job it did. I decided to go up to approx 1000fps
    with Win 630 ( now obsolete ) my WCs keyholed badly at 25yds. No leading, 50:50 WW & lead.
    The 250gr RnFp at 850 fps with Unique shot fine, same alloy. All bullets lubed on 450 with Lyman
    Lube.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check