Henry Single Shot Initial Impressions

[doghawg]

My H015-44 has about 600 rounds through it and there's been no problem with the hammer extension at all. I'm running the 31 lb. spring plus the small spring because leaving out the small one gave me occasional light strikes and a lazy hammer fall. I'm convinced the small spring gives the hammer an initial kick in the butt and reduces lock time but I never did try just using the 38 lb. Waiting to see if it works for anyone else before I pull the stock off yet again.

One thing that surprises me is that I'm getting used to the 5 lb. trigger pull and enjoy ringing the swinger when shooting offhand with the .44. I found a lighter plinking load with the 225 gr. RCBS GC that shoots to the same POI as the heavier hunting loads.

[Foggy1111]

OK....so here's the deal. I went out to my shop and got some tools in the house. Then took OUT the 31# spring and put the "original" Henry Spring back into the gun ( perhaps it's 50#'s......without the smaller spring). Viola! The hammer pull is now about 10 lbs....and the trigger pull is 4.5 to 5 lbs. IT'S ACCEPTABLE for a factory gun.

IMO....that small spring and it's variability due to the bolt that holds the stock in place is our culprit. Get rid of the smaller diameter spring.....and many problems will go away. That is not to say you cannot improve on it......but the majority of issues should go away and it should be a reasonable gun for MOST users.

When time permits (in spring) I may shorten that oringal Henry spring by about 1/8" or so.....but for now......I will run with the original Henry large diameter spring......and that smaller spring is nothing but trouble! GET RID OF IT! My .02 cents. Good luck!

[Foggy1111]

That sounds about right Foggy, and I still think ditching the small spring is the best route. The 31# spring alone seems to be working for a number of people, but some not as much, I'm one. I am now trying a 38# spring, which only adds a bit more to the trigger pull, not even half of what the small spring does, yet provides more force to the hammer. Hammer velocity is ultimately what we are after, and as you noted, there are variables. Some guns have more friction between the hammer and frame, some might have a little more mass. One is the hammer extension, and where it is mounted. A heavy steel hammer extension, mounted high can reduce hammer velocity, while a skeletonized hammer will be much faster all else equal. I'm running a Grovtec GTHM-283 (steel), the best hammer extension IMO, and I have it mounted as low as possible to reduce it's effects. Still I found the 31# spring only inadequate in my rifle. It was about 98% reliable for me, so I'm thinking the 38# will be perfect. One thing to note is that these rifles will be 100% reliable no matter what with only the big factory spring, about 50#. With the 31# spring and small factory spring, the hammer pull is only slightly less than with the 50# big spring only, yet I would bet the 50# spring only will provide more hammer velocity. I'm no expert, but the reason being the larger spring has more potential energy stored throughout the swing, while the small spring is only providing a big boost for a shorter part of the hammer swing. A spring's force is directly related to how it is compressed. As you have noted, the small spring is only compressed maybe 1/3rd of what the big spring is.

I think you summarized this pretty well MSM. Thanks for your original input into this area.....I think we are on to bigger and better things for these guns! Getting rid of that small spring is key to the issue IMO. The bolt that holds the stock onto the gun impinges on that smaller diameter spring and will cause all kinds of variables. Duh! Not sure what they were thinking here???

At any rate ONE spring is the answer to most folks problems. And for me at least.....I will be using a STEEL hammer pull as made by Grov-tec. (and a side note is that I do know Bob Grover of Grov-tec and he is a straight shooter. I sold my gun parts company to his predecessor at one point.....Uncle Mikes, and got to know him there. One of the good guys in the biz).

Merry Christmas Guys!

[Foggy1111]

So.....last night I sent Henry an email describing the hammer extension failure.....much the same as said above.

This morning, I had a credit for the extension by Henry.....and an explanation that they are now making them in steel and awaiting their shipment. Heres their response below:

Dear Tom, thank you for your feedback you have been refunded in full with some shipping. Carlson is in the process of transitioning the HCHE002 to steel, so we are just waiting on our shipments. I would be happy to send you a new one at no charge, just let me know and I will add your email to the restock notifications. If I have the steel ones at that time I will get one out to you. Please advise thanks!



VERY unsual for a company to respond that quickly on an issue like this. VERY impressive that they have taken action to satisfy my issue....and giving me a "free" replacement in steel to boot. GO HENRY!!

.......now....if they fix that spring issue as suggested in these pages.....they will be my hero yet again. Grin. Not very often you see a company this responsive to issues. Kudo's to Henry customer service! I have now owned three of their products.....and may add a forth later this year if I am satisfied with this trigger situation. I add one new toy each year.....so maybe it's another Henry.

[Foggy1111]

Last night when I had taken the gun apart for about the 4th time.....I forgot to install the spool (shown in pic below) into the stock of the gun. This did not make any difference as I did not have the small diameter spring installed that would engage the stock bolt.

Today I took the gun apart one last time and installed the 31 lb spring and put the spool back into an area in the stock that has been counter bored to accept this spool.

I'm not certain if the design was originally made to use this spool (it's made of the same diameter of the "spring tower" and mine is .312" thick. Kinda wonder if this spool was inserted as a means to allow the smaller diameter spring to work with this design and lessen the effects of this stock bolt.

The reason I show this and bring it up here is that when doing this procedure it would be easy to overlook this spool and it could make for additional problems......especially if you incorporate the smaller spring in your plans.

Also wonder if others have this same .312" thickness in the spool.....as I could see the Henry assemblers having different choices in spool thickness depending on hammer and trigger pulls when assembled (?). That smaller diameter spring has a very significant impact on the hammer and trigger pull....and it can easily be altered to a significant degree by how hard that stock bolt pushes against the spring.

OK......I'm becoming overly anal on this topic. But wanted to leave others with what I can. Good luck guys!

[rfd]

nomenclature vocabulary ... "spring tower" = "spring tube"? and "spool" = "washer"?

[Foggy1111]

nomenclature vocabulary ... "spring tower" = "spring tube"? and "spool" = "washer"?

Yep. I struggled with what to call that spring "tube". It really does a couple of functions....it contains the spring and allows provides a threaded end for the attachment of the stock. I had a similar part in one of my designs many years ago and we called it a spring tower.....thus the term.

I suppose a tower or tube patent description could be: An elongated round bar having a deep counterbored portion to allow partial insertion of a compression spring with the distal end having a smaller through hole containing female threads which in turn provides the means of threaded connection of a bolt, while the opposing end provides a male threaded section along the outside diameter affording connection to a receiver of said firearm. (if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance.....baffle 'em with bullschmidt. )

[rfd]

the entire h015 spring tube design is, er, "interesting" at best. it's one reason that it's gun-to-gun uniqueness will dictate what kinda spring or springs are needed to achieve a trigger and hammer pull weight that pleases for both use and accuracy. i don't see any of this a big deal, just takes a small amount of spring fiddling and then all should be at least ok, and with use the polishing of the action's mating parts will only make things a tad better at the least. and i do like the external hammer, warts and all. it ain't all that bad and hopefully will prove quite accurate at the really long marks. so, i like the results so far and look forward to so serious distance shooting with both the .223 and .357 come the new year's spring weather.

[Foggy1111]

I should have taken some more time to better evaluate the relationship of the Spring Tube and the stock attachment bolt....which engages with that same tube. I think there is about 1/4" to 1/3" of threaded area in the tube before the bolt will engage the smaller diameter spring which in turn will increase pressure on that spring.

I beleive I turned my hex head screw driver 25+ half turns to dis-engage the stock bolt from the spring tube. At 20 tpi.....that is approximately 1/2" of engagement into the spring tube. So I am not 100% sure if the stock bolt is penetrating past the threads and thus contacting that smaller spring.....however I am about 80% certain it does. If it does....it may explain the big variation in trigger and hammer pull weights some of us experience.....as that smaller spring has a big impact on the pull weights.

It may take a little experimentation by someone with good measuring and analytical skills to confirm or refute these observations of the stock bolt engagement with that small spring (perhaps some blue dye on that bolt?.....and a precise measurement of the threads in the spring tube would tell the tale?). I'm hoping someone finds the ambition and time to further research this.....as I am out of free time here at Christmas and will soon gone for 4+ months. I sure would like to see this issue resolved....as stuff like this plagues an analytical cowboy. Grin. I believe this issue could be a prime cause of some of the trigger/hammer variations and excess's we have.

As MSM says.....I beleive a single spring (larger diameter) in about 38 to 42 lbs is the best answer to the issue. My 31# spring may be too light to assure a reliable primer strike.....and installing that smaller spring with the 31# effectively doubles the hammer and trigger effort, making it difficult to operate and shoot. The OEM spring combo is waay too much....and removing the small spring also makes the singular large OEM spring too much for me. Therefore.....I think I need a single large diameter spring between the 31# spring I purchased from RFD and the large OEM spring (which is about 50# or so). (i.e. the 38 to 42 # suggested above)

.....back to gift wrapping. .

[megasupermagnum]

I took a much simpler route. With the small spring, trigger pull is quite a bit less without the stock, and heavier with the stock installed.

[Foggy1111]

I took a much simpler route. With the small spring, trigger pull is quite a bit less without the stock, and heavier with the stock installed.

Yep, for me too.

I'm not one to go off-half cocked (pardon the pun?)......but I'm fairly certain that **** stock bolt may often-times be pressing on that dumb center spring..... and thereby screwing up things for this otherwise fine gun.

I'd be willing to wager that the gun was originally designed without that center spring....and added when it didn't pass that drop-test. (Mind you.....I would not wager much.....grin.).

[rfd]

i think we're all finally doing fine with our h015's, thanx to megasupermagnum's spring pioneering.

thanx bud!

[Foggy1111]

I won't be near my Henry H015 until May. But I was considering what I learned when installing various spring weights.....and wish I had tried the below described tests:

As MSM said....he noticed the trigger pull would increase once the stock was installed. I noted this too and it took me a bit to understand why. I think the acid test here would be to assemble the gun with that small center spring in place.....but don't put the stock on.

Now......check the hammer and trigger pulls with a trigger-pull gauge. Next....still leaving the stock off......install that bolt (which holds the stock on) into the spring tube.....threading it until you feel light contact with the center spring. Check trigger and hammer pull weights. They should remain unchanged.

Now tighten that bolt a few turns......and again check the hammer and trigger pull weights. I believe they will be significantly greater and this stock bolt and spring arrangement is providing the variations and issues we face with these guns.

IMO....Get rid of that center spring.....and the troubles will be minimal....even when using the large factory spring. I wish I was around my Henry SS to give this a try.

[Retired_Handloader]

A BIG Thank You to "OHIOPATRIOT" for shipping out the "extra" Grainger springs he purchased. I received my 2 springs today, with the Christmas over-loaded USPS taking 10 days to deliver them.

[Pecos Pete]

Many thanks to megasupermagnum for starting this thread and Ohio Patriot for making his extra springs available. I installed the 31# spring, without the inner spring, in my 44 Mag Henry single shot. This setup reliably ignites Winchester large pistol primers. I also stoned the hammer and sear mating surfaces and removed a few thousandths of engagement from the hammer. It breaks very cleanly now at about 3.7#.

[rfd]

I won't be near my Henry H015 until May. But I was considering what I learned when installing various spring weights.....and wish I had tried the below described tests:

As MSM said....he noticed the trigger pull would increase once the stock was installed. I noted this too and it took me a bit to understand why. I think the acid test here would be to assemble the gun with that small center spring in place.....but don't put the stock on.

Now......check the hammer and trigger pulls with a trigger-pull gauge. Next....still leaving the stock off......install that bolt (which holds the stock on) into the spring tube.....threading it until you feel light contact with the center spring. Check trigger and hammer pull weights. They should remain unchanged.

Now tighten that bolt a few turns......and again check the hammer and trigger pull weights. I believe they will be significantly greater and this stock bolt and spring arrangement is providing the variations and issues we face with these guns.

IMO....Get rid of that center spring.....and the troubles will be minimal....even when using the large factory spring. I wish I was around my Henry SS to give this a try.

it makes perfect sense to just remove the stock smaller hammer spring and see how the one larger trigger spring works. no cost, just some effort.

however, noting the effect of just using the 31# spring in many folks' henry h015 guns, it appears that every gun is unique - as expected. that will require some measure of spring experimentation.

the bottom line to me is that the 31# spring, without or with the smaller stock hammer spring, is great starting point, if not ending point, for these henry s/s guns.

until wolff or someone else out there in spring-land offers a complete spring kit, the 31# spring is mandatory if the larger spring alone doesn't satisfy.

[Foggy1111]

First of all.....the two "stock" springs as found in a Henry HO15 will both exert force collectively to the same elements......i.e. the trigger and the hammer are effected by the combined force of these two springs. They are not working independently on either the hammer or the trigger.

My point on the small spring is that it may, or may not be compressed to a further extent when the stock bolt is turned into the "spring tube" depending on how far the bolt engages into the spring tube.....and that makes that inner (small) spring a wild card.....as the pressure evidently becomes excessive quite quickly as that small spring becomes compressed.

I suspect a most reliable trigger will result from a spring somewhere in the 40# range......as the 31# spring does show light firing pin spikes for some users.....and for me the standard spring furnished with the gun proves too heavy for easy hammer cocking and a light trigger pull. The trigger does break nice and clean on my gun at any pull I have tried....and has no creep, even at high pull forces.

Again the issue I have (and Henry NEEDS to correct)....is that smaller diameter spring is problematic due to its variability (additional compression) when attaching the stock via the stock bolt.

[megasupermagnum]

It will probably be like a 9# vs a 10# hammer spring in a Ruger GP100. Some guns, with some loads the 9# may work just fine, but the 10# just plain works in pretty much anything. I'm hoping that the 38# spring is the latter for the Henry.


Henry wont change, unless they change the design entirely. I've modified my gun, as I do pretty much all of them. I casted a bunch more 30 caliber bullets, now just to load and shoot to try the 38# spring.

[Foggy1111]

It will probably be like a 9# vs a 10# hammer spring in a Ruger GP100. Some guns, with some loads the 9# may work just fine, but the 10# just plain works in pretty much anything. I'm hoping that the 38# spring is the latter for the Henry.


Henry wont change, unless they change the design entirely. I've modified my gun, as I do pretty much all of them. I casted a bunch more 30 caliber bullets, now just to load and shoot to try the 38# spring.

Maybe so. But IMO this design has issues that are easily resolved. The design simply was not made for that smaller diameter spring.....OR it needs a deeper threaded portion in that spring tube......so that when you attach the stock.....it does not alter the center spring pressure....which in turn alters the hammer and trigger pulls.

IMO as it stands now.....attaching the stock may make dramatic changes in the hammer and trigger effort required.

My story.....and I'm sticking to it.

[30-30 guy]

Thanks to all you guys who provided the springs and info on this problem. I got springs from MSM and RFD and replaced my big spring with #31 on both my guhs and now have excellent trigger pull on both. This makes me just love these beautiful henry single shots. Now have to just figure what one I well want when they come out with new prices and hopefully new calibers in 2019. Again thanks to all the mechanical help to us guys who don't have your ability!!!