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Thread: 444 MArlin ??

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    444 MArlin ??

    I have located a barrel in what appears to be .429". It is heavy and contoured for a Sharps type rifle. Un-chambered as is. Anybody shoot such a thing? Any variety of bullets out there in that size? (rifle, long range weight) Match legal? I think it an 18" twist.
    Anybody got any thoughts on this?
    thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Think 44 70 44-90 om several forms the old black powder cartridges for this barrel. 1-18 twist will probably stabilize a 500 grn bullet.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Yes.
    My old shooting partner built on with a Ron Smith 0.429" 19 twist barrel using a 45-70 case. Highwall rifle. Called a 43 Pope. I never heard of such a thing. He competed with it for a few years and shot well. He might have been using 450 grain bullets.

    He was looking for a lighter recoiling rifle and ended up with a 35-55 Maynard.

    By the way. The 44-70, 44-77 or 44-90 are built on barrels that measure 0.446" not 0.429".
    Chill Wills

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    yes chill wills

    By the way. The 44-70, 44-77 or 44-90 are built on barrels that measure 0.446" not 0.429". "

    ya, that was my issue. whoever stamped it 44 77 had a pistol .44 in mind.

    So, a 43 Pope was match legal? Custom reamer? or is that floating around still? Who has heavy bullets for that size (429ish)?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Maybe you should slug that barrel before getting too far down the road on this project????

    Yup, Mike still has the reamer and the bullet mold is a one of a kind. I am sure he or any bullet mold maker like Steve Brooks can make you one, assuming you get that far along with this.

    Good luck and if you are intent on going farther PM me and I can put you in touch with the Gunsmith that has the tooling. You two can take it from there.
    Chill Wills

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Search on the Shiloh site. I can't remember for sure who it was but somebody a few years back had a Shiloh built with a .429 barrel and used a 45-90 case necked down. Think he called it the 44 wesson.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
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    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Don that was drcook that had one build but Dave called it a 42 Wesson. I shot that rifle at the Sagebrush shoot at Alliance.
    It shot quite well.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Kurt I couldn't remember it it was him or Semtav that did that, but I do remember it shot reasonably well.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    He later called it a .42-85 and it was on a .45/2.6 case Brian (semtav ) also was working on a .42-85 around that time but I don't think he ever had it made.

    I think it would be a better round then the .40-82.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Biggest problem with the 42xx is going to be finding a good bullet mould. It's going to take a good bit of mould collecting I'm thinking.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    It would take a Brooks mould. You would never find one of the over the counter.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Yup, exactly, it'll be around 180 dollars for every good idea that wasn't..
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I've had a few of those--the good idea that wasn't. At a hundred bucks or better a pop, it gets old pretty quick.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    That .429 barrel leaves you out of a lot of great old time chamberings.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    And I think, and others can drop in on this, that the 444Marlin brass is simply too heavy for a good BP round.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    You guys that need custom molds , do not forget about Tom @ accurate molds. His work is just great and will cheaply build to your specs.

    The 444 Marlin does fine with a snoot full of real powder, cant remember what i got grain wise in my Hornaday cases but it shot welp with 350,s if i remember correctly. 444 M is what i usef to kill my first Alaskan moose ... Went about 5 yards and fell over dead.
    Am not afiliated with Tom at accurate but have a b7nch of his molds brass, iron and aluminum ... All top shelf.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Yes.
    My old shooting partner built on with a Ron Smith 0.429" 19 twist barrel using a 45-70 case. Highwall rifle. Called a 43 Pope. I never heard of such a thing. He competed with it for a few years and shot well. He might have been using 450 grain bullets.

    He was looking for a lighter recoiling rifle and ended up with a 35-55 Maynard.

    By the way. The 44-70, 44-77 or 44-90 are built on barrels that measure 0.446" not 0.429".
    How did your shooting partners 35-55 work for him? I have a 35-40 Maynard take off that I might drill a little deeper.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for ALL of the thoughts. If I can get the barrel for a scrap price ( say $50), I'll get it. You guys have confirmed my suspicions. It would work for a 42 Russian Berdan or perhaps 11mm Muratra or 10.4 Italian; but I have those already and shoot them. I know there are military matches. Is that cartridges in as issued gun? Or in a BPCR match allow period cartridges in period correct actions? Like a 59/63 Sharps in 11mm Murata?

    .... I really don't need another project....

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kokomokid View Post
    How did your shooting partners 35-55 work for him? I have a 35-40 Maynard take off that I might drill a little deeper.
    Hey kokomokid, If your 35-40 Maynard is giving you problems that more velocity will solve, then you might want to give it a try. If velocity is not the issue, I would not do it. I know he still has a reamer for the 35-55 Maynard. It is based on the Krag case as you very likely already know.
    Chill Wills

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check