45-70 with 4350 powder

[Avenger442]

I am aware that IMR and H4350 are not necessarily the powder of choice for the 45-70 rifle. So before I start an information thread advising me on what powder I should be using in 45-70 I want to let you know that I'm only interested in the answers to the following questions. Has anyone used 4530 powder with the 45-70? What bullet weight and what load? This is in a new Marlin lever action with a 26 inch barrel.

I've been researching it and haven't found much. Since I just started casting and loading about five years ago I don't have any of those old manuals. I know you guys are a wealth of information and probably have some help to offer. Thanks ahead of time for the help.

[John Boy]

There is no 45-70 loading data using IMR or H4350 ... so go to the vendor's databases and select the proper powder

[RKJ]

I like all of the 4350's but I haven't found any info for the 45/70 and 4350. I use imr4895 with good results from a Guide Gun. If you find anything I'd be interested.

[knifemaker]

It appears you are out of luck for load data using 4350 powder for the 45/70. I checked the Hodgdon data base and they do not list that powder for lever action 45/70 loads. Hodgdon supplies the IMR and "H" powders you are interested in.

[Tatume]

I load 45-70 with IMR 7383 and WC860, both of which are very slow. Work up carefully. Expect black powder velocities and unburnt powder in the barrel.

[Jeffrey]

I own a Speer manual #9 from 1974. The slowest powder it has for the 45-70 is IMR 4320. This is under a 400 gr jacketed bullet. Lyman cast manual #4 and Speer #14 contained similar information.
Cast boolits typically use faster powders than jacketed bullets do due to their greater ease in passage through the barrel. 4320 is a couple of steps faster than 4350. Powders burn best within their own particular pressure range. The 45-70 would not be able to achieve 4350's ideal pressure level with a cast boolit.
At best you would be blowing a large amount of unburned powder out of the end of the barrel. At worse it could lead to a secondary detonation.
Is IMR 4350 the only powder you have on hand? There are a lot of powders that would work in the 45-70, just none slower than 4320.

[Tatume]

The fellow asked a legitimate question. It appears from the question that he knows there are better powders.

[Hamish]

Avenger,

We know we've got load info for 4320, and as slow as WC860.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...0-in-the-45-70


Powder Lot Bullet BBL Filler Charge Velocity
1 SR4759 99-225 Lee 457340F 24 D 23-31 1350-1650
2 SR4759 99-225 Lee 457340F 24 D 30 1615
3 SR4759 99-225 Lee 457340F Patched 24 D 30-32 1480-1590
4 SR4759 99-225 Lyman 385gr RN 22 22 1308
5 4895 80374 Lee 457405F 24 Grex 50 1625
6 wc872 48774 Lee 457405F Patched 24 67 1287
7 wc872 48774 Lee 457405F Patched 24 73 1365
8 wc872 48774 Lee R457500 FNGC 24 69 1268
9 Duplex WC872 Lee 457450F 24 69+1.0 1385
H4198 Lee 457450F 24 69+2.0 1437
Lee 457450F 24 69+3.0 1444
Lee 457450F 24 69+4.0 1523
10 Duplex Wc872 Lee 457500 FNGC 24 65+5.0 1470
H4918

Condum Loads
1 WC872 48774 Rem 300gr JHP 24 75 1389
2 WC872 48774 Rem 405gr SP 24 67 1192
3 Wc872 48774 Rem 405gr SP 24 73 1280
4 Factory R-P 405gr JSP 24 1210

Shouldn't be too hard to use mid range loads listed for 4320 as start loads for 4350. As far as that goes, I'd bet a doughnut if you spent a few minutes doing a search of "45-70 xxxx" with powders on the slower side of 4350 that you'll find a few things to correlate,,,,,,.

[Uncle Grinch]

I’ve used XMR-4350 with my 45-70 and got decent accuracy. However I did have unburned or partially burned powder residue left in the barrel. Just keep the muzzle pointed down to prevent these particles from rolling down to the chamber/breech are.

I’ve got the load documented in my log book, but it’s up two flights of stairs. I’ll check it out later and will post it.

[hwilliam01]

I have no data on using any of the 4350 powders, but (as this is my first year loading the 45-70) I have tried a few powders with a cast 405 grain bullet. I am trying to find a decently accurate load for bear hunting in a couple of weeks. I tried IMR4064 and it was brutal in recoil and not very accurate. I had a huge 17" square target and at 45 yards the bullet hardly (meaning on occasion) hit the target so that it showed on the Shoot N See target. I then went with Unique, and although I recognize that it is slower, it was very accurate and easy on the shoulder. My next step is to try some 2400 and see how that does. Good Luck with the 4350...I did see some for IMR 4227...

[MT Chambers]

You will use much more powder, much of it unburned, and so-so accuracy with that powder......check RL-7, 4198, AA2015, etc.

[longbow]

Not the answer you are looking for but...

I started out with .45-70 using a rather hot load of IMR4227 listed in a Hornady manual for "J" bullets (I no longer see it listed). It was economical on powder and gave good velocity but brutal on the shoulder!

I looked at IMR4350 wanting the slowest practical powder I could find but found no load data. I wound up using IMR4320. Still stout loads but much easier on the shoulder, more of a push than a jab. It worked well for me.

Lighter boolits helps too. I started out with the Lyman 457125 500 gr. but dropped weight and went to the Lyman 457124 385 gr. The slower powder and lighter boolit made for much more pleasant shooting.

Longbow

[Texas by God]

I'll look in the IMR pamphlet that has lots of arcane loads. If it ain't in there ; you shouldn't use it.

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[osteodoc08]

Has anyone tried it? I’m sure but probably poor results. It’s way too slow.

What powders do we recommend? I’ve personally had excellent results with Varget, Benchmark, and XBR 8208 along with Reloder 7, 4227.

[Uncle Grinch]

Load data.com has several loads under 45-70 (Lee Data Precision).

[Texas by God]

Here you go. It may kick a bit.

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[tdoor4570]

I have tried lots of different powders in 45-70's the best I have found is IMR-3031 that has been in a Marlin 336 with 350gr round nose j-words for most of the cast I use pyrodex rs in the 65 to 70 gr range by vol. the 3031 gives me 1 to 1 1/4 in groups. that is my swmbo's rifle.

[Hamish]

Has anyone tried it? I’m sure but probably poor results. It’s way too slow.

What powders do we recommend? I’ve personally had excellent results with Varget, Benchmark, and XBR 8208 along with Reloder 7, 4227.

Post #9 in this thread.

[RKJ]

I found some load data last night on landlords.com for the 45/70 and 4350. I don't recall the load but they're out there.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Stevespages has it listed imr4350 51-56 grains 385-405 bullet