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Thread: Not a firearm, but it uses BP :-)

  1. #1
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    Buckshot's Avatar
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    Not a firearm, but it uses BP :-)


    ...............My Great Grandfather, and then my Grandfather grew citrus in So. California. My grandfather was born in 1906, and said his dad had it made before he was born. It was used to blow tree stumps so he could hook up his team of Percheron horses and pull them out in pieces. I also used it quite often, but not for blowing stumps (until later). Citrus trees do not generally have much length to their trunk. It grows 3-4 ft lengthwise above the ground and then branches out to form a gumdrop shaped tree.

    In any event, that portion of the trunk where all the branches form around the perimeter form a wadded up snarly grain structure. On several occasions while splitting wood I'd have all 3 wedges buried, ..............and THEN what do ya do when all you have is 3 wedges? Grandpa really wasn't much help, other then he had 2 cans of Lafflin & Rand black powder. He had no idea how much powder to use. I was about 14 years old at the time, so I had no clue either.

    Well, G Grandpa had a Wm Moore & son double bbl muzzle loading 12ga shotgun and a powder charger.



    Later on I actually did quite a bit of shooting with that old shotgun, but it was kind of messed up so I kind of gave up on it, but that's another story. So IIRC we put in a 3 dram charge, some newspaper for a wad. Grandpa had some dynamite fuse, so we used that. It was a white fairly stiff cord. When you lit it, it sure smoked and a black oil came up through the white (paint?). Grandpa said that was so you could see where the fire was. He was a heavy equipment operator with the county and had worked with the 'Powder Monkeys' on occasion, so maybe that's where the fuse came from? I then drove the wedge into the crotch a couple inches.

    When it went off it was sadly not very effective by a long stretch. So then I put in 6 Drams which is (didn't know it then) about 160 grs. This time it actually split it, but not into two pieces. However I was able to knock out two of the wedges and finished splitting the trunk. After that I used the wedge quite a bit. I also learned you needed to put something heavy against the flat end whether it was on it's side or straight down into the trunk.

    One of the last times I'd used it I was splitting wood at the end of Grandpa's barn. He called it a barn but it was simply a 2 story tall, 6 stall shed. At the other end was a big ole English walnut tree that had to be 4' across and darn tall. I loaded the powder wedge (charge dis-remembered) and drove it into this chunk of crotchy trunk. Laid it on it's side, stuck in a piece of fuse and rolled my 'Wedge Rock' (about a head sized rock) up against the end. Lit the fuse and got back 20 yards or so. In a few seconds she went "ka-BOOM!!! and half of the chunk sailed end over end the entire length of the shed, and landed up in that big walnut tree!

    The last time I used it was about 14-16 years ago. To make extra money a distant cousin was cutting and selling firewood. On my way to work, once off the freeway I traveled a surface street, which went past several citrus groves. One of which was for sale. I contacted the realtor about cutting down the trees and he sicked the owner on us. He was VERY enthusiastic about having this done. Come to find out later it would cost several thousand dollars per acre for the owner to have this done. That is to have them COMPLETELY removed, along with all the brush. You couldn't burn the trimmings so they'd have to be hauled. My cousin did eventually have the stumps pushed over out of the ground. Some street work was being down along one side of the grove. He paid the operator of a big skip loader to roll them out on a Saturday.

    However, down the center of the grove had been a stand of Eucalyptus trees. They used them for wind breaks. They'd been cut off about 6' above the ground and the stumps were anywhere from 2' to 4' or larger in diameter, about 10' apart. Cousin Gary had a nice Huskvarna 20" bar saw (all I had was 2 little 14" bar McCullough saws) but I DID have that powder wedge! So Gary would make a cut 2' down from the top, about a foot deep all the way around the stub. I'd load the wedge, drive it into the top of the stump about 6", and set a small watermelon sized rock on top. By then I was using waterproof firecracker/cannon fuse. She'd go "ka-BOOM" with a healthy white cloud rolling up, and we'd usually have a big ol hunk of Eucalyptus laying there on the ground. Now THIS was fun!

    We'd finished up the one big stump and was half way through the next one when I noticed a police car coming toward us bouncing up and down over where the irrigation furrows used to be. He was very congenial, and seemed to be halfway amused. He stood there behind the car door and said, "What in the heck are you two doing"!? So I explained were were blowing these stumps up into manageable sized pieces. Then I showed him the powder wedge and all the big hunks of wood. He was very interested in it all but finally he said, "Look, I've got to ask you guys to stop, and figure out some other means to finish. We've probably gotten 10 phone calls from people complaining about the noise". I think he was kind of wanting to see us blow a couple more, (who wouldn't) but it is what it is

    Gary and I both decided to call an end to our stump blowing, and that was the last time I used it.

    ............Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

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  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Interesting! Is the nose of it solid or through-holed?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Very cool Buckshot, thanks for the write-up.
    Bob

  4. #4
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    I would have never thought of a powder powered wedge. Thanks Buckshot.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  5. #5
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    Neat. Great story.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master leeggen's Avatar
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    that thing has had a lot of sledge whacks done to it, at least looking at the swedged out top.
    CD
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I think its more correct use is as a "log splitter" from the days when an average tree was 6 ft across at the stump,and logs were commonly split into usable sizes,called "flitches",before being dragged over the sawpit and cut into boards by two men with a "longsaw" / different tooth pattern to a "crosscut" saw,that was for felling trees,and cutting to length.....I have made several over the years,and they work good,unfortunately the green/socialist government wont let you cut trees here anymore.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I think its more correct use is as a "log splitter" from the days when an average tree was 6 ft across at the stump,and logs were commonly split into usable sizes,called "flitches",before being dragged over the sawpit and cut into boards by two men with a "longsaw" / different tooth pattern to a "crosscut" saw,that was for felling trees,and cutting to length.....I have made several over the years,and they work good,unfortunately the green/socialist government wont let you cut trees here anymore.
    yep - our fellers called it a post splitter gun - when I was a kid they big boys used to bring one along to "cracker night" = Guy Fawkes night we had a big bonfire out in front of the local church with lots of fireworks - a "penny bunger" was a red paper wrapped explosive about size of an adult finger a three penny bunger about inch diameter and five inches long made a bang about like a 12 gauge - the post gun was way more exciting than that but us kids were not allowed close . Later years a mate and I bought three post hole guns at a yard sale with an unopened 50 pound bag of blasting powder - the post hole gun was kind of big brother to the one pictured by buckshot - powder was about 3/8th gravel size grains - its very effective for making a post hole in hard stoney ground or decomposed granite soils that are dried out - that stuff is near impossible to dig any other way - no good for clay it just packs away from the blast instead of rupturing . maybe can find it and post a picture .

  9. #9
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    Great story! I see a keyway in it, must have been turned from an old axle or shaft?
    Charter Member #148

  10. #10
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    My uncle has one that has more of a standard wedge appearance to it (less rounded). There are small channels from the powder chamber to the edge of the wedge blade. When the wedge is driven in to one end of the log, the fuse is lit and the expanding gasses jet out along the edge of the blade.

    We split a 12" diameter, 6' long log of hornbeam with one charge.

    Impressive tool

  11. #11
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    What a great tool.....

  12. #12
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    That would be something to see!
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  13. #13
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    As a teenager in FFA the teacher brought one of them in to school. We took a trip to my dads woods where he cut some big poplar trees for furniture. We pounded it in and then rolled a log up to back side of wedge.Really split with authority and one time one of the pieces of stump blew up in air and landed about 40 yards away.
    Look twice, shoot once.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Years ago, we had a piece of property that had a HUGE stump on it; Neither our Bulldozer nor the amount of BP we had available would touch it. So we hired a guy with an explosives license. Hint to the wise - If your explosives guy starts digging a hole for his 20# or so charge of ANFO on the side of the stump FACING YOU, find a new explosives guy, or talk them into digging on the far side... He then put a torso sized rock into the hole to tamp it, with lots of dirt. (It was a LARGE stump, 6-7' diameter, the big Dozer we had would just bounce off it and not move it. Most trees there I just used a backhoe on, but that was a BIG one.) So the stepmother and father and I were by the trailer, maybe 100' down range, as he set it off; With cameras to capture the event. When I saw the stump sail into the air on TOP of a 40' diameter ball of dirt I was impressed, but when I noticed that torso sized rock was getting larger in my viewfinder I for SOME reason decided to grab the stepmother and drag her out of the line of fire... LARGE torso size rock too. It passed our position at considerable velocity, I think it first touched down about 100 yards PAST us, but a lot of dirt clods and smaller rocks rained down on us; FAR more exciting than it had to be! Just because someone has applicable licensing does NOT mean they have 1 lick of sense, sadly! Wish I knew where that set of negatives were

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy

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    JWT would love to see a picture of your Uncle's black powder splitting wedge. Have a few large oak stumps that need to be removed and blowing them out would be more fun than a stump grinder or burning them.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Skipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin101 View Post
    That would be something to see!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HwKq5D-Y_s
    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    There was a guy selling those log splitters at a gun show about 25 years back. Had about a 1" bore and the OD was about 3" tapered down with groves to help hold it in the log. My uncle use one made from a hydraulic cylinder and the ram had a wedge. The two parts had a chain to hold them together so the cylinder would not get lost. I used the same idea to make a concrete buster with a short piece of cylinder and a short ram. Placed it under the slab and it was a lot easier than using a sledge hammer. Also had the two pieces chained together.

  18. #18
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    .............My grandfather said the wedge was made from a Ford TT truck axle, and the keyway you see was from the 'Wheel ' end. However I cannot verify his information. He started work with San Bernardino Cnty when they still used horses or mules to pull graders. He'd said that the rear axles on the trucks were 'Worm Drive' and they'd paint the axles with silver paint. When the axles turned blue (from heat) they'd have to stop and let them cool down. He had one of the first Diesel motor graders. It was a 3 cylinder Caterpillar. Him and his swamper drove it into town (Needles, CA) for lunch. He said when they came out there was a group of people standing around it. Someone asked him if this was his piece of equipment. Grandpa allowed that it was and the guy said, "Gawd D*** the County for letting their equipment get in such sad shape. Just listen to these rods knocking".

    Grandpa said that they weren't used to Diesel engines and the engine WAS idling, and sounded like, Knock, knock, knock, knocking Grandpa said you could drop the blade down and just roll the dirt up with the blade. You could look behind you and every time a cylinder would hit, you could see a little divit in the ground from the wheel moving a bit faster then you were going. IIRC, wide open was about 850 RPM.

    They tried to take him into the Seabee's during WW2, but the county fought them tooth and nail to keep him. Several other of the 'County Boys' were taken, and one of the Diesel mechanics for a Motor Machinist's Mate on a submarine, but that's another story. He built many an airfield out in the southern California desert for the squadrons flying in off aircraft carriers, or Army training units, and he had some wild tales He said one Navy outfit suggested that they hide him in an Avenger and he could fly out to the carrier and they'd make him a Warrant Officer. He didn't go

    He wasn't much of a 'Gun Guy', but his older brother Monroe was. Monroe passed away before I was born (1953) and he'd been the constable for Bryn Mahr, CA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryn_Mawr,_California). He had a Colt 1911, 38 Super that he carried. I remember seeing it and the original box, and sure wish I had it now! I think my mom's brother got it, but he wasn't a 'Gun Guy' either, and asking my aunt about it is like talking to a door.

    ................Buckshot
    Last edited by Buckshot; 08-11-2018 at 03:18 AM.
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

    Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.

    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy

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    Buckshot do you drill a starter hole to start the wedge in or just hammer it in? Am going to turn a small wedge to experiment with. Have some stainless bar stock to use. Have a large red oak stump that had three trunks growing out of one stump that is about 5 feet across where the roots come out of the ground. Will experiment on it with the bp wedge. Was in CB Engineers in Amy so have experience with c4 but have only used bp to shoot with, not blow things up.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckshot View Post
    .............My grandfather said the wedge was made from a Ford TT truck axle, and the keyway you see was from the 'Wheel ' end. However I cannot verify his information. He started work with San Bernardino Cnty when they still used horses or mules to pull graders. He'd said that the rear axles on the trucks were 'Worm Drive' and they'd paint the axles with silver paint. When the axles turned blue (from heat) they'd have to stop and let them cool down. He had one of the first Diesel motor graders. It was a 3 cylinder Caterpillar. Him and his swamper drove it into town (Needles, CA) for lunch. He said when they came out there was a group of people standing around it. Someone asked him if this was his piece of equipment. Grandpa allowed that it was and the guy said,"Gawd D*** the County for letting their equipment get in such sad shape. Just listen to these rods knocking".

    Grandpa said that they weren't used to Diesel engines and the engine WAS idling, and sounded like, Knock, knock, knock, knocking Grandpa said you could drop the blade down and just roll the dirt up with the blade. You could look behind you and every time a cylinder would hit, you could see a little divit in the ground from the wheel moving a bit faster then you were going. IIRC, wide open was about 850 RPM.

    They tried to take him into the Seabee's during WW2, but the county fought them tooth and nail to keep him. Several other of the 'County Boys' were taken, and one of the Diesel mechanics for a Motor Machinist's Mate on a submarine, but that's another story. He built many an airfield out in the southern California desert for the squadrons flying in off aircraft carriers, or Army training units, and he had some wild tales He said one Navy outfit suggested that they hide him in an Avenger and he could fly out to the carrier and they'd make him a Warrant Officer. He didn't go

    He wasn't much of a 'Gun Guy', but his older brother Monroe was. Monroe passed away before I was born (1953) and he'd been the constable for Bryn Mahr, CA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryn_Mawr,_California). He had a Colt 1911, 38 Super that he carried. I remember seeing it and the original box, and sure wish I had it now! I think my mom's brother got it, but he wasn't a 'Gun Guy' either, and asking my aunt about it is like talking to a door.

    ................Buckshot
    That made me think back and laugh. I bought a 1984 Chevy 1500 in Kalispell in 1988 with the 6.2 diesel in it. I had parked in front of Super One Groceries and left my pickup running since it was winter, when I came back out there was an oldtimer standing by my truck listening to it. He told me it had a rod out and was going to blow up soon, I thanked him and said I hoped it made it until Spring! He was right though, 6 years later it did "blow up", not a rod but a broken piston.
    Charter Member #148

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check