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Thread: Hunting with new HP

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Hunting with new HP

    I've decided to focus on using a new HP for deer hunting this fall. Recently I've taken 3 different animals with 3 different guns but all 3 were 5 1/2" barreled guns so I've decided to use one of my favorite 4 5/8's old models with this new bullet & see how things work out. The bullet I'm going to use is a 45 caliber 217 gr Maxine Mouth HP breaking out of the chutes of my 3 screw shorty 45. Today was the initial work up day & I started by using 10 grains of Longshot.
    Shooting from the sitting position with my back against my truck & knees drawn up (my usual position) I shot the first 3 rounds & checked with the glasses. The group was vertical but all 3 were almost touching. I decided not to make a sight adjustment & loaded & fired the next 3 of the same load. These 3 did the same thing, just made the group string vertical with all 6 shots almost touching but a tick low of my aiming point.
    Next up was 11 grs of Longshot & I did make a sight adjustment before shooting the first 3 shots. These were much more centered with one shot going slightly out. I loaded the next 3 & fired using the same hold & was pretty pleased with this load. Didn't use the Chronograph, that will come later. First photo is the 217 gr. Maxine Mouths that are a clone of the Lyman #452190 except for the HP. Second photo is my OM shorty & the 6 shot group at 20 yds sitting.
    I'll run a few more groups & see what kind of speed I'm getting, perhaps somewhere around 1000 fps is my guess with this short barrel.




    Dick

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Nice shooting!

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Tatume's Avatar
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    The bases on your bullets look particularly good, so I'm not surprised at the accuracy. I'll look forward to hearing how they do on game.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    That bullet would be a lot more effective without the hollow point. You will not get much penetration with that. A much better approach would be a good, flat meplat about .260-.280 in diameter. the flat nosed bullet will give a much better wound channel all the way through. Trust me.

  5. #5
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    One of those in the lungs of a deer will let the air out quickly.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    SSGOldfart's Avatar
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    Nice shooting,I've got to ask what caused you to make a change? Is it just wanting to use your favorite revolver or did you find a short coming with the others you have been using??
    I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left.
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    Looking for a Hensly &Gibbs #258 any thing from a two cavity to a 10cavityI found a new one from a member here

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    sharpsguy, so how many deer have you taken with six guns? I've been taking them for 50 years & almost always used solids but in the last few years I've decided to experiment with some HP's. The way I've approached it is to slow them down a bit so I get good expansion & still get penetration & I've done both. The secret is correct alloy & velocity. I've taken probably over 100 deer, 11 elk, moose, bears, antelope, lion, big game is 7 different states including Alaska & Africa & I have a pretty good idea how to make a cast bullet work....trust me! My friends & I have shot HP's through bison, large feral hogs, moose & bears so far.

    Dick

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Thumbs up

    Sixshot,

    Sure hard to argue with hands on experience such as yours, but you yourself state that to make a cast bullet reliably expand you need to have the correct velocity and alloy/hardness and therein is the problem.

    You've been there and done that, but I doubt that every critter has been taken at an exact yardage and therefore it also follows that velocities must differ from critter to critter. Again it follows that providing you were able to retrieve the fired bullet you also saw a variation in the resulting expansion or lack thereof.

    Likely many of your critters were taken and there was no retrievable bullet which leaves you with a dead critter but nothing to show exactly what the results were. Dead critter but maybe an over expanded bullet or on the other end maybe one that did not expand at all.

    With a cleanly taken critter, everyone is happy and the bullet gave excellent performance. But did it?

    Therefore, I'll comedown with the Sharps Guy as per using a bullet with the large meplat and not one that will give possibly questionable expansion.

    With the large meplat I could care less if my 45/70 or .44mag bullet expands. With my 45/70 I have taken deer at ranges of about 50yds to elk at 161yds and with only one exception on a quartering shot into a big cow elk, every bullet has been a complete pass through. The bullet is a 465gr Wide Flat Nose at a muzzle velocity of 1650fps.

    On my first two .44 deer taken last Fall with the little RUGER 77/44 rifle, the 280gr Wide Flat Nose gave a complete pass through, one a side to side at a lasered 95 - 100yds, the other a complete pass through at about 50yds. Muzzle velocity 1750fps.

    So, as said, can't argue with your results, but would suggest that a good Wide Flat Nose cast is would be every bit as deadly but also more reliable in hunting situations were we can only control the alloy but not the velocity at impact.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  9. #9
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    I've been around enough to know I don't know it all. I look forward to more stories with this. How does the lighter maxine group, compared to a 260 gr moving 1200 fps if you happened to have some in your pocket the same day outside?
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  10. #10
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    I need to take my revolvers over to Idaho so you can show me how to shoot them. I'd like to be able to do that with a revolver.
    Doug
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Nice shooting good luck on your hunt
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  12. #12
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    Very nice looking boolits; your bases and coating are flawless! I’m also on a HP experimenting kick; with relatively heavy boolits at modest to high velocity they seem to work as well as my beloved wide nose flat points; deer and hogs mostly have been my test medium and n revolver lever gun and muzzle loader. I’ve also been very pleased with accuracy and penetration and expansion tests in .45 acp pistols. I noted very little difference in accuracy, POI my shift from solid to HP but everything is still more than minute of whitetail. As far as effectiveness on game; more testing to be done on my end but I agree alloy is important the old to hard to soft deal that is the central theme of this casting obsession.
    Last year I was new in the 357 Maximum game; got some HP boolits from a fine member here and was so impressed I bought the mold; pcd and gas checked they are amazingly accurate at very near top end jacketed velocities. That got the ball rolling in my head. A large doe shot on crop damage permits provided good feed back although no recovered boolit but a very quick kill; with extensive bone and lung damage with a nice exit wound of about .403 and not much blood shot meat tells my these HP cast projectiles can be a very serious game killing tool. Sorry rant off.
    Your boolits look amazing and into have a true soft spot for 4 5/8 inch Ruger revolvers. So much that me and my best friend each have one of a consecutively numbered set.

  13. #13
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    sixshot--I've got to tell you that I have never killed a big game animal with a sixgun. But I HAVE taken my fair share of game with cast bullets, been to Africa three times, killed black and blue wildebeest, a couple of kudu, a couple of zebra, a gemsbok, three elk, a dozen buffalo, a couple of auodad and I don't know how many deer and hogs. Out of all that, I have never lost an animal and have only recovered ONE bullet. One. You will not get that level of dependable pass through penetration with a hollow point bullet. I know a bit about the 457122 Lyman Gould hollow point and quit using it about 40 years ago. Go on youtube and look up "Black powder zebra kill" and take a look at what a Sharps with barrel buckhorn sights and a 480 grain FLATNOSED bullet does at 161 yards. Next time you go to Africa, try that with your sixgun and hollow point bullets. I seriously doubt you'll get the same result.


    That hardcast flatnosed bullet has taken game for me at distances from basically off the end of my gun barrel to 540 laser measured yards, and with the Sharps, a broadside elk at 300 yards is a gimme. I have kudu and blue wildebeest, as well as springbok on dvd being taken in excess of 300 yards with that flatnosed bullet.
    Last edited by sharpsguy; 09-12-2018 at 11:11 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry guys, I've been gone to the big city all day running errands, when you live in small town Idaho you have to leave your little piece of heaven once in a while.
    So you've never killed a single animal with a six gun & you're telling me what bullet I should use & to TRUST YOU, wow, that's amazing stuff.
    If you go back & read I said using HP's is something kind of new for me & that I've always used solids with great success, either Keith style or LBT style & I've killed about everything right where they stood & I've done it over & over & over & I have the photo's to back it up, hundreds of them. This is public land hunting in the western US except for my African trip where, as you know it's the law that you use a PH. It's not the law that you use a rifle or a muzzle loader so no, I have no need to go to another site to look at your kills. I don't even own a rifle.
    I'm shooting iron sighted six guns for the most part, some times I use a scoped six gun & almost always carry one with me just in case I need to make a long shot. Last year I did use my Ruger 357 Maximum on one deer & one antelope, the other deer I used my OM Ruger 44 magnum & yes I did use a HP.
    The first photo you will see is some Keith style 44 HP's with the "Penta" HP, these are kind of fragile & it's a bullet that you can't run at top speeds or you're going to get in trouble. My load the last 2 years has been 10 grs of Unique, very accurate & remember we're talking six gun range. The small buck was walking towards me across a stubble field & I guessed him at about 50 yds, it turned out to be 64 yds. He was facing me almost straight on when I stopped him with a soft grunt. I hit him square on the right front shoulder bone. This is where you guys jump in & say it blows up & fails right? The bullet broke the shoulder, went through one lung, the intestines & went back & stopped against the left hip bone. So, it almost went clear through him, really surprised me. You will see the recovered bullet on down, it weighed about 182 grs from the initial 240 grs. Good or bad?
    The second buck you see is a 4X4 shot the year before with the same bullet at 94 yds with my 10.5" Ruger 44 magnum. The shot went through both lungs & exited. Someone said how do you know how much damage you get if you don't recover the bullet, that's kind of a dumb question. It's not too hard to look at the insides & see what happened & yes there was plenty of expansion but it did exit.
    The 2 photo's with the really big HP's were recovered from a very large bull bison & a double shoulder shot on a very large feral hog & the shoulder bones were mush. The bullets started out at 385 grs & after recovery expanded to right at an inch & weighed about 380-382 grs, good or bad?
    I've sent that bullet all over the country & guys have used it on everything, I could show you 50 texts or PM's I've received from guys that were very happy, it's a great bullet!
    I'm still not sold on HP's after shooting solids all my life but I can say they've surprised me on deer. Also, the one set of lungs you see in the photo's, they came from the antelope I shot 2 weeks ago, they are shot up pretty good considering I shot it at 73 yds with a 135 gr HP from a 327 magnum! Got a rib going in & a rib going out, good or bad? The one cow elk in the photo's I shot with the 260 gr Keith at 168 yds with an OM Ruger 45, iron sights, one shot, lasered by the guy sitting next to me, this was the Keith solid, good or bad?
    This 45 slug will work great on deer at six gun range, TRUST ME!










    Dick

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Don't let them get to you too bad, there seems to be a culture on this site that a hardcast flat nose is the best, and hollow points are an all or nothing ordeal.

    My experiences mirror yours, hollow points pass completely though. It's hard not to pass through a whitetail, even a big 250 pound buck. If both bullets pass completely through, why wouldn't you wan't a bigger wound channel? I've been playing with cast hollow points, and they seem pretty reliable to me. Using the Forester tool, I can change how much a bullet expands. If anything it's easier in a handgun, a bullet doesn't loose that much speed over 100 yards. If it expands decent at 10 yards, it will expand at 100. That's my 2 cents. Keep up the good work, I like reading real world reports like yours.

  16. #16
    Boolit Man
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    Mr. Thompson looking forward to photos of your success with the new HP. You the man.

  17. #17
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    Interesting thread. I too am making the switch from WFN's to HP's, for whitetail's. Been using the NOE 265 RF in my Marlin 1894 carbine @ 1550 fps cast out of alloy that measures 15-16 BHN. I always try for double lung shots......that's the bow hunter in me. Results were always dead deer but with poor results, as far as tracking and recovery, are concerned. The WFN leaves little or no bloodtrail and the deer are going close to two hundred yards after being hit. Even with an entry and exit hole.

    The next deer I harvest with a gun, will be using a HP cast bullet. The RCBS 300 SWC, hollow pointed by Eric, cast from three parts pure and one part lino. Velocity will be @ 1650 fps.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There has been much reference to the correct velocity and alloy but I'm not seeing any specifics. Inquiring minds want to know.

    Winelover

  18. #18
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    Sixguns. Looks like you are doing great.
    Keep it up and thanks for sharing
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master kenyerian's Avatar
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    Great pictures thanks for sharing. I've also been using HP's more and more the last few years . Great results in the 44 Mag.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I am huge fan of cast hollow points for hunting. They work absolutely fantastic. You can get great accuracy and they can be run lower speed but are very lethal on game. It is your choice you make that choice and feel confident that the HP is a great choice.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check