Self defence and LEO.

[jdfoxinc]

Please please please, if you ever have to use your firearm in self defense, lay it down after the action is over. An Aurora homeowner shot and killed a home invader. The neighbors called APD. The home owner exited his house holding his firearm. Being in shock he did not obey orders to disarm and was shot and killed by LEO.

[lightman]

Thats sad. One hopes to not ever be in that situation. And most of us don't have the training or experience to deal with the shock and adrenaline that happens.

[knifemaker]

If it was the neighbors that called to report hearing gunshots in their neighbors house. Cops get there and see a person exiting the residence, first thing that will come to their mind is that he is a suspect that just shot someone in the house and failing to obey orders to drop the gun will most times result in being shot at by the law enforcement officers.
If you have to shoot someone in self defense in your home, do not exit the house if possible. If you have to exit the house do not have your gun in your hand. Wait till the cops get there and might be smart to call dispatch and advise them what happen and tell them to let the officers know you will be coming out unarmed and hands in the air.
If you shoot someone in public in self defense. If possible conceal the firearm on your person before cops get there and upon their arrival have hands in air and yell to them that you did shoot in self defense and you have a gun on your person. Then obey their orders to the letter and no fast moves with your hands. As a law enforcement officer, I had two incidents where I almost shot a suspect that I was told was armed and they made a stupid fast move and at the last second I saw something that made me hold my fire. One time the hammer was half way back in a double action shot before I stopped the trigger pull.

[jdfoxinc]

It turns out that the LEO was inside the home when the shooting happened. Dispatch had a description of the suspect as being young and black, the home owner was white and elderly.

[popper]

https://kdvr.com/2018/08/01/stepson-...-year-old-son/ The real story? All sounds weird. Train your family to shut up if you have to use a weapon in self defense. LE can get info from your lawyer and scene investigation. Punk's family like $$.

[brewer12345]

I am law abiding to the core, but if the police shoot at me they can expect me to return fire.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Since the police use the key word "gun" to signal to their partner that they see a definite threat and saying that you could get shot, you could say firearm, pistol, whatever but I wouldn't say "gun". Bad for your health...

[am44mag]

I am law abiding to the core, but if the police shoot at me they can expect me to return fire.

Sounds like a great way to get killed. In the highly unlikely event that you find yourself misidentified as an armed threat, put the gun down/drop it immediately and make sure they can see your hands and make sure they are far away from your waistband or any pockets. If you shoot at them, they will shoot back. There's a heck of a lot more of them than you, so you will loose and you will most likely die and be seen as a wannabe cop killer by your community. Not exactly the best legacy to leave for your family.

Tough talk on the internet is nice for BSing with your buddies, but in the real world all it gets you is a grieving family and a grave.

[sureYnot]

If you read more carefully, in his scenario, the police started shooting first.

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[am44mag]

If you read more carefully, in his scenario, the police started shooting first.

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I read his scenario and understood exactly what he was saying. There is no need for me to read more carefully. If you shoot back at police, you will remove any doubt from their minds that you are indeed a threat to their lives. If you find yourself in a bad situation where they think you are a threat, the ONLY smart thing you can do is to disarm yourself immediately and do everything you can to make them perceive you as less of a threat. If you shoot back at them, it will always end badly for you. You can't Rambo your way out of a situation like that, and trying to do so will only result in your death and a 30 second segment on the 5 o'clock news about how the police killed an armed assailant.

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[sureYnot]

If somebody is shooting at you, they're already trying to kill you.

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[am44mag]

If somebody is shooting at you, they're already trying to kill you.

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Please walk me through the logic of shooting back at the police. How do you think that's going to end, and how is it going to be even remotely beneficial to you?

[sureYnot]

Well, if he's trying to kill you and you just stand there and let him, you die for sure. If you try to stop him you only MOST LIKELY die. If you don't die, you get the opportunity to prove he was acting outside the law. And if his friends show up and kill you later, you aren't really any MORE dead than if you let him do it. Anyway, not really a problem where I'm from. Pretty sure you'd have to be the one that started it, to get them to shoot at you. Had a sheriff draw down on me last year. He didn't shoot, I followed orders. Got it all sorted. He handed back my weapon, shook my hand, and we went out separate ways. Stupid neighbors.

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[rl69]

I will die defending my self, I will die defending my familly,I will die defending my country I will die defending what I believe is right. I will not die in fear of death. How far we have come from "I regret I have but one life to give" to just drop to your knees and put your hands behind your head.

But hay it's just a bunch of Internet talk

[am44mag]

Well, if he's trying to kill you and you just stand there and let him, you die for sure. If you try to stop him you only MOST LIKELY die. If you don't die, you get the opportunity to prove he was acting outside the law. And if his friends show up and kill you later, you aren't really any MORE dead than if you let him do it. Anyway, not really a problem where I'm from. Pretty sure you'd have to be the one that started it, to get them to shoot at you. Had a sheriff draw down on me last year. He didn't shoot, I followed orders. Got it all sorted. He handed back my weapon, shook my hand, and we went out separate ways. Stupid neighbors.

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If you throw your gun away and throw your hands up, more than likely they'd stop shooting. I know I would. If you try to stop him with force, you will be met with even more force and then you will REALLY be in trouble. It's not a good situation to be in period, but shooting at the police will make a very bad situation even worse.

As I said before it is an unlikely situation to find yourself in, but it does happen. If you think about it from both the officer's perspective and the shooters/victim's perspective, it starts to make sense. An officer is not going to know exactly what's going on when he get's there. He's not going to know who you are or that you are the victim. He's only going to know what dispatch told him with will likely be a "shots fired" or "man with gun" call. When he drives up and sees a guy standing out in his yard with a gun in his hand, he can't just assume they are not a threat. It could be the homeowner or it could be an armed bad guy who just shot the homeowner. There is no way for them to know that unless they are told that by dispatch.

From the homeowners perspective, they might no be thinking clearly. A lot of things can happen in a self defense shooting, and while we like to think that we can keep a clear head and make rational decisions, that may not be the reality of the situation. People can go into psychological shock after an even like a self defense shooting. They can be partially or completely deaf from firing a gun in an enclosed area. Their mind can be a thousand miles away trying to process what just happened. You never know how someone's going to react until it happens.

Now, the officer is on scene and sees an armed person. That person isn't following orders and that officer has to assume they are a threat. Put yourself in that situation and ask yourself what YOU would do. Remember that you don't know what that person just experienced and that you are just responding to a shots fired call. They're armed and not listening to you. Maybe they make a move that you perceive as a threat and you have a split second to make a choice. Do you fire, or not. Remember that you don't have time to think it over, and you certainly won't be able to armchair quarterback your way out of the situation like too many faceless people online think they can. You have less than a second to make that choice. If you make the wrong choice, you will either kill somebody or be killed. THAT is the reality that officers face. Can you honestly say you'd make the right decision in that split second? Do you see now how this situation could happen? It's not the fault of the officer, or the fault of the homeowner. Things can happen that are out of our control and we can find ourselves in these types of situations without warning.

The police are not the bad guys. They want to help and protect people. They can make mistakes though, and it is far too easy to make one that could cost you are someone else their life. I will tell you this though, if you shoot at an officer you are not going to benefit from your actions at all. You are going to make the situation so much worse for yourself. Your best option by far is to do everything you can to make yourself look like less of a threat.

Let's be honest though. If you can think clearly enough to get into a gun fight with police, and you were still armed when they got there, you made some mistakes. Don't walk around your yard or house with a gun in your hand after a self defense shooting. That's just plain common sense.

I will die defending my self, I will die defending my familly,I will die defending my country I will die defending what I believe is right. I will not die in fear of death. How far we have come from "I regret I have but one life to give" to just drop to your knees and put your hands behind your head.

But hay it's just a bunch of Internet talk

There's a lot of things to die for, but this is a really stupid reason to give up your life. It will amount to a whole lotta nothing.

[sureYnot]

I am law abiding to the core, but if the police shoot at me they can expect me to return fire.

Nothing in that post about running around with a gun in his hand or otherwise being provocative.

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[knifemaker]

Well said am44mag. In real life you will have some computer screen wanna be Rambos that will disagree with your sound advice.

[am44mag]

Nothing in that post about running around with a gun in his hand or otherwise being provocative.

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Then I guess you don't have to worry about the police shooting at you then.

Well said am44mag. In real life you will have some computer screen wanna be Rambos that will disagree with your sound advice.

Exactly. Almost all of them will never be in that situation and the ones that do will either grossly overestimate their confidence in shooting at the police, or will be a 30 second segment on the evening news. The bad thing is, they give the anti gunners quite a bit of ammo. All they have to do is point them out and say "look at those gun nuts threatening to shoot cops".

[brewer12345]

Am, guessing you are or were a cop?

Like I said, I am the law abiding type and will always avoid violence. That said, if someone shoots at me I intend to shoot back. All very unlikely hypotheticals, given the sedate life I live.

[sureYnot]

Yes, he was.

Good Lord, man. I already said I don't worry about the LEOs around here. But you're trying to make out like there's never been a dirty cop in the history of the world. And NOBODY advocated going out to shoot at cops. You're doing a great job twisting everything. Sheesh.

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