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Thread: Got to the range today and had somt good results

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Northwest Ohio
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    Got to the range today and had somt good results

    Got to the range today and tested 2 rifles took 3 with me. Was a good day. I took 2 45-70s and the henry 44-40 original. Had 80 rds of 45-70 with 4 different bullets and 100 rds of 44-40 with 2 diffrent bullets. Shot from the bench off of a set of bench sticks and a pad under right elbow. Buddy spotted for me. The trac chair was to tall not only for the bench but to allow me to see under the baffle.

    1st rifle was a BRC Brochardt this is a lovely rifle beautiful wood fit and finish. 32" BRC barrel with choked muzzle. I had the 6 power MVA Malcomb sope on it. I loaded the 45-70 ammo last winter for it and the powder un compresed reseating the bullets to around .020 to long couldn't chamber it today. So this rifle didn't get test fired today.A real let down since I was really looking forward to the hammerless sharps.

    2nd rifle was a Remington roller in 45-70 32" badger1-18 twist barrel. Nice walnut well fitted MVA long range soule rear with Hadley eye cup and wind gage front. I had a crosshairs insert in it today. This rifle has a chamber with a throat in it about .300 -.400 long so the 45-70 ammo worked in it fine. It really liked the old west 550 shilouette bullet and was around 1 1/2" at 100yds for groups. The 535 postell showed in around 2" at 100yds and the old stand by 510 Lyman govt round nose was around 1 3/4". The brooks paper patched didn't fair as well with the long throat as it was bore riding and after 2 rounds they wouldn't chamber easily. I suspect rings were forming in the throat. Rifle performed very well. Once I get the shop up and running Ill drill and tap it for my Malcomb scopes. Gave $1000.00 for this rifle last spring at a local clubs gun show.

    3rd and last rifle was a henry 44-40 original. This is the Steel framed version made by Henry. Again nice walnut fit and finish is great the case hardening very good. 24 1/2" barrel not sure on twist. This rifle has the military ladder with notch and brass front blade. 2 different bullets purchased from buffalo arms a 210 grn Flat point lubed with spg and a 215 grn hollow based also lubed with SPG. Both were 20-1 alloy. I have a hard time seeing these sights but loads fed and functioned flawlessly. The 210 FP seemed to be the more accurate bullet.

    I took the easy way out in the loadings and used the same powder charge wads primer and just adjusted compression depth for the different bullets.
    45-70 loads were the 510 grn lyman 535 lyman postell and 550 old west shillouette bullets
    Cases were starline primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred
    Powder was 62 grns 2f Olde Ensforde weighed and dropped into case with 3 ft drop tube.
    Primers were Rem LR std hand seated
    .060 Napa rubber fiber wad and 2 tracing paper wads compressed to allow bullets to seat to depth
    Bullets were pan lubed and shot as cast with SPG

    44-40 loads were BACO 210 grn flat point and 215 grn hollow based lubed with SPG
    Cases were Starline with flash hioles deburred and pockets uniformed
    33.5 grns 2 f Olde Ensforde dropped into case thru 3 ft drop tube, probably not needed here.
    Rem Large rifle primers hand seated
    .020 playing card wad and 2 tracing paper wads.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    rfd's Avatar
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    it's great satisfaction when it all comes together - congrats! Name:  thumbsup.gif
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
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    Sounds positively perfect. Great report C G. These days seem far n few and long between, glad to hear you getting out.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Canada, Ontario, Durham region
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    I loaded the 45-70 ammo last winter for it and the powder un compresed reseating the bullets to around .020 to long couldn't chamber it today.
    Just looking for clarification. Your saying the compressed powder puffed up and pushed the bullet out of the cases .020”.?

    I use a compression plug to depress the powder column so I don’t distort my bullet nose during the bullet seating operation. Sometimes the powder gets pushed down ~.010” more than the exact length I require, this leaves a small air space under the bullet, which violates the often repeated warning about not leaving any air space under the bullet.

    l never had a problem shooting my hand loads that had this small gap between powder surface and the bullet base. I’ve always assumed the powder would decompress till it again was pressing tight against the bullet base. It will help my confidence in my BP loading technique to to have it confirmed that the compressed BP does in fact decompress to close any small air gap I may have created in my handloads. Your cartridges took ~5 months for the COL to stretch.020”.
    I don’t have my ctg’s stored that long between loading and firing sometimes it’s less than a week. I will have make some ctg’s without a crimp and check measure their COL daily to record their COL growth.
    I’ll also recheck the COL on my oldest handloads to see if my crimps are still holding tight.
    Last edited by greenjoytj; 07-30-2018 at 07:50 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
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    My neck tension is very light. While bullets don't fall out they can be turned by hand in the case when seated. I use no crimps. I size with a Meacham bushing die after the bullet has been hand seated. This has given me the best overall accuracy so far. Once a load has been worked up to desired velocity and best accuracy I then play with adjusting neck tension thru different size bushings ( .001 increments). Normally my loads only last a week or two on the shelf these were sitting for 3 months or so.

    I also use a compression die to set the powders compression so bullets arnt deformed. Im normally around .125 compression with Olde ensforde, .060 with swiss and around .200 with goex

    I would suspect that with an "airspace" between bullet and powder the powder will uncompress to fill the gap fairly quickly unless the bullet tension lube create an air locked condition.

    I drop powder in with a 3' drop tube add the .060 napa rubber fiber wad on top, here the hieght may vary by .010-.015 depending on how consistant Im pouring that day. I then compress in the die and they are then very close to identical. One thing I do is when at the top of the presses stroke I give a 5-8 second pause to help "set" the powder and wad. in place. I then add the2tracing paper wads and hand seat them on the base wad with a dowel. Hand seat the bullet and set neck tension.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Mar 2013
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    Got back to the range today with the Brochardt and roller with test ammo. The brochardt has a very tight chamber only full length sized cases fit and those are snug the last 050-060. Todays ammo did chamber and worked good. Was impressed as the 550 grn Old West bullet and 535 grn postel were both under 2" for 10 shots. One plus to the tight chamber is outside of brass is very clean yet. Groups were nice and round. Rifle shot very weel recoil wasn't bad. Sights were my 6x mva scope with the 4 moa ring reticle. I may try a 3" white disk in the center of the black next time since centering it in the bigger bull was tricky. Shot the 510 lyman 457125 rd nose, 535 postell Lyman version, and 550 grn Old west shillouette today. All were cast from 20-1 and lubed with SPG. Had a nice lube star at muzzle that stayed geasy thru the string. Blow tubed 2-3 breaths between shots. This rifle has a Al Story barrel that's choked on it. Its performing very well.

    The roller was a retest of last sunday with the above bullets. I did modify a cross hairs front insert ( probably .010 blades) with a .095 dot in the center this worked really well for me and my eyes. All the loads were acceptable and shot around 2" or a little under. ( after reading the one roller post Ive taken to holding the hammer when I close the block). Rifle performed very well and with the sorbothane recoil pad is easy on the shoulder.

    Loads today were the above bullets over
    Starline brass uniformed annealed and trimmed.
    62 grns 2f Olde Ensforde powder weighed and dropped into case thru a 3ft drop tube
    Rem 9 1/2 primers hand seated to light press in the uniformed primer pocket
    ,060 napa rubber fiber wad set in and used to compress powder with die. 2 tracing paper wads
    Bullets hand seated into cases on to wad stack and tension set with bushing die.

    I may pick up some Winchester brass for the brochardt. It may be a .001 -.002 thinner than the starline giving me a little wiggle room with its tight chamber. I need to chronograph these loads now to see where Im at velocity wise. Im betting that 550 grn bullet is going to ring the rams real well. LOL. It does out of the 45-90.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master 59sharps's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Got to the range today and tested 2 rifles took 3 with me. Was a good day. I took 2 45-70s and the henry 44-40 original. Had 80 rds of 45-70 with 4 different bullets and 100 rds of 44-40 with 2 diffrent bullets. Shot from the bench off of a set of bench sticks and a pad under right elbow. Buddy spotted for me. The trac chair was to tall not only for the bench but to allow me to see under the baffle.

    1st rifle was a BRC Brochardt this is a lovely rifle beautiful wood fit and finish. 32" BRC barrel with choked muzzle. I had the 6 power MVA Malcomb sope on it. I loaded the 45-70 ammo last winter for it and the powder un compresed reseating the bullets to around .020 to long couldn't chamber it today. So this rifle didn't get test fired today.A real let down since I was really looking forward to the hammerless sharps.

    2nd rifle was a Remington roller in 45-70 32" badger1-18 twist barrel. Nice walnut well fitted MVA long range soule rear with Hadley eye cup and wind gage front. I had a crosshairs insert in it today. This rifle has a chamber with a throat in it about .300 -.400 long so the 45-70 ammo worked in it fine. It really liked the old west 550 shilouette bullet and was around 1 1/2" at 100yds for groups. The 535 postell showed in around 2" at 100yds and the old stand by 510 Lyman govt round nose was around 1 3/4". The brooks paper patched didn't fair as well with the long throat as it was bore riding and after 2 rounds they wouldn't chamber easily. I suspect rings were forming in the throat. Rifle performed very well. Once I get the shop up and running Ill drill and tap it for my Malcomb scopes. Gave $1000.00 for this rifle last spring at a local clubs gun show.

    3rd and last rifle was a henry 44-40 original. This is the Steel framed version made by Henry. Again nice walnut fit and finish is great the case hardening very good. 24 1/2" barrel not sure on twist. This rifle has the military ladder with notch and brass front blade. 2 different bullets purchased from buffalo arms a 210 grn Flat point lubed with spg and a 215 grn hollow based also lubed with SPG. Both were 20-1 alloy. I have a hard time seeing these sights but loads fed and functioned flawlessly. The 210 FP seemed to be the more accurate bullet.

    I took the easy way out in the loadings and used the same powder charge wads primer and just adjusted compression depth for the different bullets.
    45-70 loads were the 510 grn lyman 535 lyman postell and 550 old west shillouette bullets
    Cases were starline primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred
    Powder was 62 grns 2f Olde Ensforde weighed and dropped into case with 3 ft drop tube.
    Primers were Rem LR std hand seated
    .060 Napa rubber fiber wad and 2 tracing paper wads compressed to allow bullets to seat to depth
    Bullets were pan lubed and shot as cast with SPG

    44-40 loads were BACO 210 grn flat point and 215 grn hollow based lubed with SPG
    Cases were Starline with flash hioles deburred and pockets uniformed
    33.5 grns 2 f Olde Ensforde dropped into case thru 3 ft drop tube, probably not needed here.
    Rem Large rifle primers hand seated
    .020 playing card wad and 2 tracing paper wads.
    I'm shooting a 1860 henry in 44-40. Use 2 bullets a rcbs sel 205 w gas check machined out. Shoot it w 27 of 3ffg OE. The other is by moose mold. W 28 grn 3ffg OE. Bothsized .429 No filler or wads. My own mix of lube. They both shoot very well at 100 yrds.
    14th VA. CAV.
    N_SSA

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
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    Spent today chronographing a 45-70 load in 2 different rifles. Boy the Lab Radar made this easy. Load is Starline brass primer pockets uniformed and flashholes deburred. Trimmed and annealed. Rem 9 1/2 large rifle primers. 62 grns 2F olde ensfode powder. .060 napa rubber fiber wad ( also used to compress the powder). 2 tracing paper wads. Lyman 535 grn postell cast from 20-1 and pan lubed with SPG. Powder was compressed .630 from mouth for seating depth.

    The rifles were the Rolling Block with 32" badger barrel. The pedersoli / cabellas long range 74 Sharps with 34" half round barrel ( pedersoli factory barrel and chamber). I had the Brochardt along but had issues chambering ammo in it with lower body being tight, so didn't force it today.

    Velocities from the roller were running 1190-1200 fps very consistant and had around 11 fps extreme spread ( 1 st shot from clean cold barrel was slightly faster but it settled in after that. Groups at 200 yds were very good for me with iron sights ( eye appointment next Friday ). Rifle performed very good and velocity is about right.

    Velocities from the Pedersoli was running 1200-1210fps again with 1at shot slightly higher from clean cold barrel. Not the increase I though for the longer barrel though. But still only 10 fps extreme spread. Groups were very nice and round at 200 yds.

    As to the brochardt Im suspecting my sizing die is showing some wear also. What are the tighter dies available in your experience opinions. My RCBS die is probably 30 years old and purchased used. Rounds chambered easily to the last 1/2 " or so. Then got snug and tight any further. I may order a new sizing die or take some off the bottom of my die.

    The first shots velocity from both clean cold barrels was running in the 1220-1230 fps range. But then settled down. Velocities were running good and consistant from both rifles. Accuracy was very good

    50 rounds were powdered thru a 3 ft drop tube and then compressed with a compression die. Powder was lower to start with here. 50 rounds were powdered with a slow pour thru a funnel and compressed. the initial powder charge was slightly higher in these before compression. The .060 wad was inserted and used for compressing the charge. Not a lot of different in velocities between the 2.

    All in all a good days testing and performance of the rifles.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check