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Thread: Shoulder stock for handgun, maybe?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I'm not a great one hand pistol shot. I always shoot two handed.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    check into it being black powder it may not fall under batf rules

  3. #23
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    Shoulder stocked Blackpowder handguns are not considered "firearms" by the BATFE.
    State laws may differ.
    They are not in demand because they aren't fun to shoot IME/O.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    Shoulder stocked Blackpowder handguns are not considered "firearms"
    Well almost, the feds don't care what kind of powder it shoots if it is a cartridge gun, a cap&ball would fall under the same rules (or no rules as the case may be) that muzzle loaders fall into. Pistols such as that Remington pictured are not cap&ball and are cartridge revolvers so likely the law would indeed apply -I certainly wouldn't want to argue the point with them. Now if that is an original made before 1898 (is 1898 right????) then MAYBE but then there is the obsolete cartridge wording in the rules too so even that may not do it.

    Considering the penalty and the fact that the feds don't play around or cut anyone any slack it's a good idea to ask them beforehand and take any internet advice, as the old saying goes, "with a grain of salt". I very seriously doubt that "but they told me on the internet it would be legal" would be a very effective defense!
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  5. #25
    Banned bigted's Avatar
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    As to reasoning for the desire for a shoulder stocked handgun ... wouldnt a 16 inch barreled carbine such as a trapper model lever or a singleshot such ad a 16 inch Encore be about as handy ... AND PERFECTLY LEGAL?

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigted View Post
    As to reasoning for the desire for a shoulder stocked handgun ... wouldnt a 16 inch barreled carbine such as a trapper model lever or a singleshot such ad a 16 inch Encore be about as handy ... AND PERFECTLY LEGAL?

    :EDIT: Sorry, I misread your post.
    Last edited by oldred; 08-03-2018 at 07:51 AM. Reason: delete reply
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    I seriously doubt the BATF would care where you say you brace it and if it CAN be braced on the shoulder even if you are not shooting it just having it in your possession would get you an all expenses paid trip to a Government owned Grey Bar resort! A stock is a stock and it matters not how you claim you shoot it, you need not even be shooting it at all!


    i'm saying if you cut it off(note red line) , then you can bend the "stock" to fit your forearm. the shoulder is not required. it would be a brace not a stock.

    the Grey Bar resort, that one goes to memory bank!!!!

  8. #28
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    This already exists in a legal iteration. It is called the USA 1 Shot.

    www.usa1shot.com and https://rsrstore.com

    I have two. They just had a guy make a shot at 1200+ yards with a S&W 686.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Linebaughbuck View Post


    i'm saying if you cut it off(note red line) , then you can bend the "stock" to fit your forearm. the shoulder is not required. it would be a brace not a stock.

    the Grey Bar resort, that one goes to memory bank!!!!
    Ok, somehow I completely missed that part before, don't see any reason why that wouldn't be legal.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Skipper's Avatar
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    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
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  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Glad to see that Luger exception.

    But if it's ok for a Luger why not a 1911?

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWT View Post
    Glad to see that Luger exception.

    But if it's ok for a Luger why not a 1911?


    I saw a discussion on another forum that was about that very question. The consensus was, and one of the participants seemed well versed in the law, that it must be a rare collectable as pointed out in the last part,

    [such as original semiautomatic Mauser “Broomhandles” and Lugers, have been removed from the purview of the NFA as collectors’ items]

    with "collectors items" being the key here. These very rare and very expensive collectors pieces would not be likely at all to be used for any sort of crime and in fact are of much more value as non-use collector pieces than as shooters so it was deemed that while they did indeed fall into the physical description as per the law they actually posed little or no danger of being used in crimes but still retained a high value as collector and historical items thus they were exempted. The law also, as stated by "However certain stocked handguns SUCH AS original Mauser" clearly leaves open the option to also exempt other such stocked handguns as long as they are original and can be shown to have a significant collector value, obviously very few such handguns exist.

    So apparently the answer to the question of "But if it's ok for a Luger why not a 1911?" would be because it lacks significant collector value. I would think that if you could find a rare highly collectible ORIGINAL shoulder stocked 1911 (if such a beast could be found, and some were built) then you could apply for a collector exemption and possibly get one.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    I once fired a Inglis High Power with stock and a Smith & Wesson Model 27 8 3/8" revolver without stock side by side at 100 yards. It was probably an unfair comparison; the High Power was reimported from the far East, and had considerable wear. Standing in the back of a pickup and bracing on a sandbag on the roof, the S&W was more accurate.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Bibliotecario View Post
    I once fired a Inglis High Power with stock and a Smith & Wesson Model 27 8 3/8" revolver without stock side by side at 100 yards. It was probably an unfair comparison; the High Power was reimported from the far East, and had considerable wear. Standing in the back of a pickup and bracing on a sandbag on the roof, the S&W was more accurate.
    A brand new Hi- Power wouldn't keep up with the m27 S&W either, I think.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  15. #35
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    OK I put this up but everyone ignored it. The guy wants a Stock on his pistol. This is not legal. Period.

    However the USA 1 Shot Pistol Brace doesn't attach to the pistol, the gun merely sits in it.

    It is the same as bracing the pistol against a barrier except the barrier is movable. Once again, the gun is NOT attached to it in any way. Your strong hand pressure holds the gun and the brace together, and if you open your hand the brace falls away.

    I have two of these and I can hit a Silhouette Chicken at 50 meters every single time with my Glock 35. Pigs at 100M 8/10, Rams at 200m 4/10 I sucked at turkeys. This is with G35 in .40 S&W with a Red Dot Sight. I shoot my G23 nearly as well with irons.

    The same brace works with all medium frame Glocks, and I have one for my G21 SF as well. They are available for many guns and if you are looking to shoulder your hand gun, this is the way to do it.

    They recently had a guy make a 1200+ yard shot with a S&W 686, it's on Youtube.

    I just shot a plate rack last weekend 6 shots/hits in 7 seconds. I can't get near that without the brace.

    The amount of accuracy this adds to your gun is astounding. It is the Broomhandle Mauser you always wanted except the gun travels in your holster just like normal. The brace just comes along as an accessory.

    This is the only way I know of to legally attach a stock to a pistol. Because it's not attached!

    http://www.usa1shot.com/

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    A stock on a pistol is legal, with the right NFA paperwork, in those states that allow SBRs -- Short Barreled Rifles.

    Also legal if it's a contender with a long barrel put on first, then the stock put on.

    There was a stock made for 1911s some years ago (40-50?) that you held on same as those braces. BATF legal back then as it was not permanently attached. Probably more examples out there.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Yep, an SBR or machine gun can both be “pistols” with stocks.

    You can also put a 16”+ barrel on a pistol and stock it as well. “Kits” have been made for a few different pistols over time as well as dedicated “uppers” to convert them.

    Being a machinegun this one doesn’t matter what length barrel is on it.



    This one is legal with no barrel or the long one, the short barrel and the stock is a no, no without the right tax stamp.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 83C7C8F6-F3B2-4A4E-ACD0-B39347566C48.jpg   813721D8-3367-4107-8057-071BFA66E71E.jpg  
    Last edited by jmorris; 09-16-2018 at 07:26 PM.

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Wait a sec. The USA1 products on their website use the "arm brace" devices that AR-15 pistols use. If they are not permanently attached to the gun and therefore don't create an SBR, why don't they have actual buttstocks?
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Neckshot -

    Howdy !

    You probably are already acquainted with it, but.....if you already haven’t; take a look @
    The shoulder stock used on Lee Van Cleef’s Remington 1858 in the Western
    “ For a few Dollars More “. He played” Col. Mortimer



    With regards,
    357Mag

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    FergusonTO35 - It seems odd to me too. Maybe people are more used to braces nowadays than stocks for pistols?

    357Mag - Oddly IMFDB doesn't show an 1858 in "For a few Dollars More". Way too long since I watched these. One of "Angel Eyes"'s thugs did use a stocked '58 at one point in "The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly"

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