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Thread: Making a low velocity .224"

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    94

    Making a low velocity .224"

    A lot of my shooting is done on smaller places and shots out to 200m are rare and 80-100 more the norm. Noise can be a big issue with locals. I have been tinkering with my 17H and Trailboss to see what I could do to turn it down a bit and 2000f/s is about it with one of my 17gn projectiles. More than good enough but the performance of any of the factory and home swaged offerings at 100m was mediocre at best. They shed the jacket and the cores tend to pass straight through with little disruption. Seems that the frontal x- section just does not lend itself to expanding at low speed.
    I then moved to a .224" out of a 223rem as that case capacity will get a 40gn up to 2k with Trailboss. After much buggering around and finding that again performance is poor at <2K I Finally came up with a hollow pointed core in a round nose open tipped 40gn projectile. It is a bomb. Does not penetrate any more than 6" of water and just destroys itself. There seems to be a correlation between the diameter of the open tip and the depth of the hollow point (from the tip of the projectile to the base of the hollow point). Has anybody built these before? There seems to be a point where accuracy just falls off a cliff. Stability calculator said they are good and they will do a inch at 100m with a 2" drop from 50 to 100m but there is a fine line between performance and accuracy. Would be interested to hear of others trials and findings.

    Bill
    Last edited by Bills Shed; 07-26-2018 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Fixed spelling
    The bloke out in the field is always right until proven otherwise.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Hick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Winnemucca, NV
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    704
    This is a lot different from what you are talking, but I use the Lyman 225646 and the NOE 225-55 FN at low velocities from my 223 Rem. Plain base I get good accuracy out to 100 yards at about 1250 fps (3.5 grains of HP-38)-- which is very nearly a 22LR load. Gas checked my most accurate load is ~1700 fps (5.8 grains of HP 38 or 5 grains of Titegroup). Good accuracy for me means hitting 2' to 3" gongs at 100 yards.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  3. #3
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    94
    I take my hat off to anybody who has shoots plain base in 22 cal. I will stick to my jacketed gear.
    I have no dramas makeing a quiet, accurate, projectile, getting it to function to a point that I think is acceptable is another matter. Deep cavity in the lead with a round nose worked. I did try a 6 cal PF die but that did not function well at all. Recovered many perfectly formed with nice rifling engraving. I did try a 30gn with the same jacket length as the 40 but accuracy was junk, hence the question on the corilation between cavity depth and weight etc.

    Bill
    The bloke out in the field is always right until proven otherwise.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master BlackoutBuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
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    Reloading Bench
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    359
    When it comes to appeasing the anti gun locals, (who will never be happy with anything we do anyhow), why not get a can? Although the temptation to bring out the 50 BMG's is soooo tempting.
    NFA = Not Freaking American

    It would be less disrespectful to burn the flag than to put a thin blue line through the middle of it.

  5. #5
    Vendor Sponsor


    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    363
    Blackout,

    A can is not going to do much to reduce the noise at 2000 fps. Anything over 1130 is breaking the sound barrier. While a can will reduce the report, it is not quiet. OTOH, if you are shooting subsonic, you can then become quiet. Quiet enough to shoot critters in the back yard without alerting neighbors.

    Bill, have you tried core bonding your core to your jacket? I experimented with this a while back and got beautiful performance using rimfire jackets and bonded cores. That open tip peel back the thin jacket like a banana, even at "slower" speeds. At 2000 fps, you will get a beautiful shroom nearly all the way to the base. Take a little while longer, but I think you will love the results.
    Zbench

  6. #6
    Boolit Master BlackoutBuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Reloading Bench
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    359
    Thanks Z. I'm waiting on the ATF to return my infringement application for my first can right now. Filed a couple months ago. I dont have much first hand experience with them because of these irresponsible laws and oathbreakers who enforce them.
    NFA = Not Freaking American

    It would be less disrespectful to burn the flag than to put a thin blue line through the middle of it.

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by Zbench View Post
    Blackout,

    A can is not going to do much to reduce the noise at 2000 fps. Anything over 1130 is breaking the sound barrier. While a can will reduce the report, it is not quiet. OTOH, if you are shooting subsonic, you can then become quiet. Quiet enough to shoot critters in the back yard without alerting neighbors.

    Bill, have you tried core bonding your core to your jacket? I experimented with this a while back and got beautiful performance using rimfire jackets and bonded cores. That open tip peel back the thin jacket like a banana, even at "slower" speeds. At 2000 fps, you will get a beautiful shroom nearly all the way to the base. Take a little while longer, but I think you will love the results.
    Hi Zbench,
    Yep I tried the bonded core, the soft point, hollow point, long jacket, shot core, copper powder core, short jacket ..... It is a real balance for performance. I can get the projectile to perform at 50 with trail boss velocities but at 100 it is not reliable. My aim is minimum drop from 50 -120m ( need a light projectile) quiet...ish,with a projectile that functions reliably at less than 2K. I think I have finally found it.

    Bill
    Last edited by Bills Shed; 07-27-2018 at 10:12 PM.
    The bloke out in the field is always right until proven otherwise.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    110
    If it's just for target practice and you don't need portability, why not a stationary suppressor? Legal pretty much anywhere. Basically an insulated, baffled, culvert-type thing. At my local range we have some made of series of tires to shoot through. There are better ideas you can Google involving just OSB and fiberglass that seem to perform better.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Boolit Master BlackoutBuilder's Avatar
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    Dec 2016
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    359
    I'm looking to build a subsonic round for a blackout, just waiting to get the swaging stuff paid off. Getting closer. I'll have to pick up a chrony, and of course, build the can once the paperwork clears. I got the SBR stamp already so it's not so much "if", but "when".

    Hopefully I can get the gun to run with subs but not overgas the thing with supers.
    NFA = Not Freaking American

    It would be less disrespectful to burn the flag than to put a thin blue line through the middle of it.

  10. #10
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    94
    This projectile is for the paddock and we are not allowed suppressors here unless you a vermin type business and even then it is hard work. I can make beautiful mushroom shapes at 50m and my little 30gn SPRN will flatten out to just under 1/2" but is rubbish at 100m. The 40 is only a hair slower and has more weight. The answer turned out to be a deep hollow in the core and not the jacket. I know these are around for the high velocity varmit shooters in the USA, but they are not here. There is a lot of the V/Z brothers here but I find they are poor at low velocity.

    Bill

    Bill
    The bloke out in the field is always right until proven otherwise.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check