Big Decisions

[fatelk]

Here's a theoretical situation, with a theoretical decision to be made.

Say you have a job in an area that you like. You have a wife and several young kids that love where they live. The job is good, great boss and coworkers, interesting and challenging work. The drawback is the company stinks. Due to certain factors you're looking at a possible decrease in income over the next couple years, structural changes regarding benefits, with very substantial impact for those insuring a family. Money is a bit tight.

An awesome job opportunity comes up. You have been offered a job over a thousand miles away in a very different geographical location, different weather and culture than you're used to. It's the same kind of work, working with/for someone you know and work with well. The pay and benefits are significantly better and the move would be paid for.

As to career it's a no-brainer, but it's in a bigger city with a lot more traffic, crowding, and crime. The wife is opposed, and the kids are in tearful dread of moving. The upside would be not having to stress about money so much anymore, but the potential downside is everybody hating it, saying Why did we ever move?!

So, theoretical situation. If it were real, I'd have already made my decision I think, but I'd be second guessing the wisdom of it. I wouldn't be asking for advice per se, just thoughts on the subject.

Any thoughts?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

First I will say, Money isn't everything, I would stay where you are, simplify your life and work toward becoming debt-free if you currently have debt.
-------------------------------------------------------

You say "Money is a bit tight" where you are now...what does that mean?

This new job and new location, you claim "The upside would be not having to stress about money so much anymore"...what does that mean?
------------------------------------

I've been lucky (or wise?), I've never stressed about money, and I've almost never had any debt.

The only friends (and fellow co-workers) of mine that stress over money, and make a lot more than I ever did when I was working, but they have debt, a lot of debt, and always have reasons to get farther in debt.

I have a few friends that don't stress about money, and both of those families make less then I did when I was working, but neither family has any debt.
---------------------------------

So it may sound like I am preaching about Debt...I am not, but I am curious if your money stress is really Debt Stress?
The simple solution is to get rid of the Debt... that will end the stress.

It really doesn't take much money to live comfortably in "small town" USA, if you live a simple and debt-free life.

[fatelk]

We have no debt besides the house. We live fairly simple lives, no fancy toys, big vacations, or nice cars. The financial worries involve not being able to save much for the future, having kids that will be college age in the not too distant future, and hoping to retire some day eventually.

We live in a big town with a small town feel, rural and agricultural. The cost of living is high though. If we hadn't bought our house years ago there would be no way we could afford it now, and it's really nothing special. I was talking to my sister in Indiana a while back, comparing the cost of living. My property taxes alone aren't that much less than her whole mortgage payment!

My "theoretical" decision is made; I just have to think out loud a bit and mull things over. It's not often opportunities like this come along, and it's painful to turn one down.

[facetious]

"You say have a job in an area that you like. You have a wife and several young kids that love where they live."

"The job is good, great boss and coworkers, interesting and challenging work. The drawback is the company stinks."

I can feel for you.

One thing to remember is that your family at home is the real one. The one at work is not. A great boss will sell you out to save his butt and how much do you think about coworkers when you are not at work?

I have had a good job for 38 year's that I have come to hate. And have came close to quiting a few times over the years. Every thing I liked about it and that made it fun to go to work when I started, started to change in the mid 90's and at 61 i'm just running out the clock. I do not know how many times i have wondered what life would be like if i had quit to chase some dream.

But at the same time i still had to think about my real life. My wife has had a lot of health problems and health care became more inportant and then in 1995 my dad died and i found my self careing for a mom with alzheimer's for eight years. Some where in that time i had to just face the fact that pay checks pay bill's and life had a lot of bill's. So i just bit the boolit and stuck it out. In the end for me it was the right thing for me to do. Next year i hope to retier.

When i was a kid my dad was always telling me that "if you are not thinking ten years a head you are all ready ten years behind." I think that is what kept me going, being abale to see down the road to where i wanted to be and what it was going to take to get there.

You need to have a good talk with your wife about where you want to be in your life ten or twenty years from now and what it is going to take to make it happen. But as i found after fifty life has a way of just adding it on making it harder to change.

If you like where you live and your life there good and you have family and good friends, that will be a hard thing to give up. It may be the best thing is to stick it out or mybe a different job that that you don't have to move for. Or you may find that in the long run the only way to achieve your goles in life will take you on paths that you would never have dreamed of.

[EDG]

New city, new culture?
Have you ever lived anywhere else?
How do you know the weather will be a problem?
Sometimes you can like a new location more than your original home.

The way you avoid crime in a larger city often means buying a more expensive nhome in a crime free area.

There are risks staying where you are. There is no guarantee your existing job will last. There is no guarantee of anything.
At some point in time you have to make a command decision regardless of what your family thinks. They know what they know and want what they want but they do not go to work or pay the bills and do not understand what they have is not permanent.

[Tatume]

When I finished grad school and was actively looking for employment in my field, I had opportunities with NOAA. The jobs were in D.C., and I would have had to live in Northern Virginia. I didn't even go for an interview.

Where I am now I'm making about half the pay, but my wife and I are happy. We live in a rural community, close to the Chesapeake Bay and our boat. My choice was quality over quantity.

[crowbuster]

I faced this very thing when my boys were small. I just could not make the move. Yes I would have been set for life. But that just aint livin. 4 lane hiway just to get a loaf of bread wasnt for me. Foolish ? maybe. but im happy

[Lloyd Smale]

pretty simple answer. You have a family. Move and when you retire move back if you find after living there you prefer it to the new place. First responsibility in my opinion is providing the best for them. Your preference is second. Also because a job is in the city doesn't mean you have to live in the projects. If you cant put a loaf a bread on the table a that's in paradise is just a round piece of wood that doesn't taste to good. I know lots of people who live there whole lives for 10-15 bucks an hour because even at 30 cant cut the apron strings from there family. There family suffers because they want to play softball with there high school buddys or are just plain chicken ____ of change. Sounds like you have a skill set. Go there and work a couple years. If you don't like it start looking elsewhere. Also don't use the kids wanting to stay. Kids don't understand whats best for them. That's your job. When I was 5 my ma and dad packed up and moved. All of us kids were mad but the job opportunitys just weren't there where we lived. In about 2 months we all had new friends and grew up in a area that has jobs even for my kids and grandkids. Best thing they ever did. They would still be there in that rickity old house and I would have had to move to get a job. You move now and maybe your kids will be able to settle in that area and get a good job too.

[snowwolfe]

Wife and I always loved moving when we were working. Expands your horizons and you learn what to like or dislike before settling on a forever house.
But just because the new job offers more money doesn’t mean you will come out ahead. Takes a lot of research into the new area as far as cost of housing, utilities, insurance, taxes, etc.

However, you would be making a mistake if everyone in your family hated the idea except for you. That would be a foolish move.

[Bulldogger]

Both sides have their pros and cons, as several have outlined preceding.

I second the advice to focus on family, I did not and am looking at starting a (full) family now at 46. I'm excited, but God only knows when I can retire...

The guy who sits next to me at work is new and made his family move from the only home the kids have ever known because he was bored and stagnant at his old job. He took a pay cut and moved to a more expensive area on top of that. I expect he's going to be in the doghouse until his kids leave home and he can move into one of their bedrooms.

As far as schooling: my attitude towards college for my son (and future kids) is what it was from my parents: "Good luck". There are several ways to fund college if you really want/need to go, and they don't have to involve student loans. There are all kinds of local scholarships, from VFW, Am. Legion, churches, it's a long list where I live. They are small and must be competed for, but half of ours are almost handed out by word of mouth, so few kids try to find scholarships now. They add up. If your kids can't beat the bushes and qualify for any scholarships, well, if it were my kid I'd point him to vocational school, but he knows firsthand I'm not very sympathetic to those who don't apply themselves in school. Not saying you should browbeat your kids, just questioning an automatic requirement for 4-year college. If they go to college, even on their own initiative, there will be expenses you will help them with, sure, but I believe firmly that parents are not obliged to pay all the bills plus room and board for their kids to major in beer pong at WVU for 6 years either. Sorry, soapbox item for me. Please forgive me if I said too much.


Were it me, I'd stay, and keep options open for a place to jump when the place you're at becomes toxic. Leave before it gets really bad, before your resume picks up any tainting, if possible. Having an exit strategy, doesn't have to mean moving to another state/world.

Bulldogger

[rockrat]

My Father-in-law had the same scenario. He ended up going by himself and would just catch a cheap flight back home every two weeks or so.
I have heard that there are those that live in Utah, that catch a flight to LA on Sunday evening, work the week in LA and then catch a flight home Friday night. Cheap roundtrip flights that the higher pay more than makes up for.
Don't know if thats an option for you or not.

Remember the old saying "Happy Wife, Happy Life"?

[popper]

Rule 1: wives and kids don't like change. They are social animals. They will get used to the change but gripe a lot at first.
#2: Can't really depend on the 'new' job having anymore longevity than present one.
#3 cost of move is pretty high but can be managed - but it will take up all of your 'pocket' money.

[fatelk]

Like I said, the command decision has been made. The cost of living is a little less there, but to live in a better area where you won’t get shot and robbed, the commute is a lot longer. The cost of a move shouldn’t be a problem because of the relocation package.

If it was just my wife and I, it would be one thing, but where we are now is a far better place to raise a family, hands down. Everything I read about the other place says that a huge problem there is a lack of decent jobs, especially for young people. Raising my family is priority for me, and I have no doubt that where we are now is the better place for that. That was pretty much the decision in a nutshell. All the other considerations are mostly second guessing.

Then there’s moving. I hate moving. We started our family late so 40 is long in the rear view mirror. The whole process of moving is traumatic; you lose a year of your life. I wish I could be one of those people who can pick up and move on a whim, but that’s not us. My wife says the very thought of moving again makes her physically ill.

I have a good job as it is with no real need to travel or move at this time. I’m lucky to have such a good job in a more rural area like this. It just hurts to turn down a great opportunity. The more I think it through, the more convinced I am that we’re making the right decision. Could we make it work with the move? Yes, I’m sure we could, but aside from having more money I think we would all spend years wondering why we did it and wishing we hadn’t.

[hithard]

Brother,

I live in a big metro area, san Francisco bay area outer parts. I have a good job, work 4 tens , easy six figure. NO problem making ends meet and then cutting the rest off.

Will trade it for rural living and a happy family in a heartbeat.

To much traffic, 18 miles to work all highway.45 min to, and 1 to 1.5 yrs home. Everyone is stressed. Couple of daylight home burglaries every month in my city, Great town, the best in the east bay.

Lots of hood rats in surrounding towns, all the towns touch one another by the way. Not what you want to expose your kids to.

The grass is not all that green, it's just the money. Relax and enjoy being king in your castle, the queen is happy, and so are the kids, you should be proud. I would be

[Handloader109]

Money isn't everything. But I had a job for 16 years. First 10 were great next 2 were ok, last 4 were a horror as company had been sold and money was being siphoned off and we ultimately closed. Was a really long commute 65 miles one way, but easy rural drive. Next job lasted 5 years in our hometown, but they closed down and I relocated to northwest arkansas. Didn't want to, but now love the area. Job lasted 6 years till it sold and they found a way to fire a number of us long term employees over a 4 month period. But that's life. Again, money isn't everything, I owe nothing but my home mortgage. And i make ends meet. Life is good.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[shooter93]

I have had several chances for better jobs in my life. Jobs that offered insurances, benefits, and retirement. I turned them all down preferring to work for myself at what I love doing. We love our house and property and the area. We have had a very hard time over the years. Health insurance costing 2,000 bucks a month etc. We managed to save some money but took a real bath in the finicial collapse so retirement is gone now. Toss in some very serious health issues that kept me in the hospital most of a year and a very long recovery to where I can start working again. I've been at this over 50 years already and it looks like I'll be doing it untill I die. Would I change things and taken those jobs?.....No.....never.......despite all that we have loved being here and together and to me that far out weighs the other stuff.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm squarely with Lloyd on this.

You're the adult, the kids don't really get a say, although you can make them think they are involved. The wife must be on-board with the decision. In the end, the adults make the decision and kids deal with it.

As for the big city part, that's not a deal breaker. The reason cities grow large is due to the economic opportunity they offer. Furthermore, cities aren't all bad and they offer experience that rural locations don't. You don't have live there forever.

Military personal, their spouses and their children move frequently. It can be a positive experience that produces resilient, adaptable children that cope with the challenges of life far better than people than have never been stressed. Moving away from friends and familiar settings is difficult but it will not kill you. Kids are resilient and will make new friends. In the end, they will be stronger adults.

You make hay when the sun is shining. That means if opportunity presents itself, you take it or lose it.
That doesn't mean you jump from one city to another but it does mean when a significantly better option presents itself, you capitalize on it.

If you do your financial planning right, you'll have the ability to go where you want later on. If you don't make money when you can, you'll never have that option.

[smokeywolf]

Not enough information to make a decision.
How much longer until retirement?
I made a living doing work that I liked. Had pretty good pay and great benefits. Earned an average pension, with incredible health insurance. Even though I was born here, haven't liked where I lived for the last 35 years.

How much longer until your kids start college? In-state tuition is way, way less than out-of-state tuition. If you are living in a state that has a great university that you think your kids can gain admission to, that's something that should be considered.
I have a son starting college soon. Although he's been accepted to a top university, would like to have seen him go to a more conservative school like maybe, Texas A&M. Out of state tuition was prohibitive for us.

[fatelk]

Thanks for all the input everyone. At this point it is truly a theoretical discussion because any real decisions have already been made, and I'm comfortable with that.

I'm sure some of you will think I'm an idiot for choosing family over career, as do a couple of my coworkers. It's my decision and I'm good with it. The kids don't get a say, but my wife and I are in agreement that we would much rather raise them here than there.

As to picking up and moving on a regular basis, it's just not going to happen for us. I'll move if I have to for work, and we'd move for the ideal location, but realistically there's just no way we're going to move somewhere that we're pretty sure we all would not like, just for a little more money. We can't always come back; it's just not that easy.

I know people often feel differently about moving around, and I agree that a person should be open to the idea of moving if necessary, but personally I hate it. I think our culture is too nomadic in general. I've had friends who have moved around a lot. Right or wrong, I won't live that way. There's just no way at this point in life that I'm going to move somewhere with an eye towards moving again in a few years. If the nomadic lifestyle works for you, great. It's not for us.

This has been the second excellent job opportunity that I've had in the last few months, and the second that I've turned down. I've had legitimate, logical reasons for that. The biggest reason for being so picky is that I've already got a pretty good job that I like, so I figure I can afford to be a little picky. We'll be fine here in the long run if need be. We may not be able to put much aside for savings for a while, or help the kids much with college when the time comes. We won't ever drive new cars, or probably even nice used ones, but that has more to do with being frugal and avoiding debt. I know plenty of people with less financial means who drive much nicer cars. We're far from destitute; we're just frugal. I could write a check for a late model used car tomorrow if I wanted to, but we worked hard to save that money and I think it would be foolish to waste it on a car.

[lightman]

I was going to wish you Luck with your decision but it seems like you have already made it. I had that decision to make several years ago. Probably much easier than yours. My job went by seniority and a bunch of guys younger than me were ahead of me. I was looking at being middle age or more before getting a position with more responsibility, pay or easier duty. So I moved. Same company. Moved from a city of 70K (which is now 49K) to a town of 3K. Not very far away, about 40 miles, but the job required me to be within a certain distance. We left friends behind. We still see some of them and made new ones. The kids left friends behind. Same thing, they still see a few of the old ones and made new ones. We left family behind. We liked our new place well enough that our families later followed us. The new job gave me more responsibility and caused me to grow and mature. I made more money and that boosted my retirement. We're still here!

There are a lot of things to think about here. Money is not everything but having enough and a little extra is nice. You do need to make enough to save for retirement. A job with benefits and retirement will make your life easier and better. Happiness is important to but it needs to be factored into other things. My job was difficult for the first couple of years, the middle 30 years were great and the last 2 were tough. Now they pay me to not come to work and I get to sleep through thunderstorms.

Sorry for rambling so long! Good Luck in your decision.